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We had an auditor given a list of five or six end rudiment-type Zero Questions to clean and every one of them was wildly alive at the end of the so-called session. Of course, the auditor is off auditing until he knows something about this. We had this trouble last September very bad.
LRH: We are going to give you a proper session, and we're going to do some fish and fumble there. PC: Okay. LRH: I told you just a moment ago, we're going to look for this tick-tick, and we're going to see if we can find this tick-tick, and find out what it was, because that had me mighty curious when I had you on the line.


And that trouble consisted of people not thinking it was important to clean an E-Meter or people skimping over it or people just not able to read an E-Meter. And we had all this trouble in September, and there are a whole bunch of lectures on that subject as of about that period – having to lay it in with branding irons. Now, we're going to lay it in with branding irons this time.
PC: That was the one on – on that Prepcheck chain I went down. LRH: Yeah. PC: Hm.


We're going to start the thing this way: We're going to get rudiments checked by the auditors who are auditing, at the end of pcs' sessions; and then I'm going to ask the Auditing Supervisor to get one or two of those preclears after that auditing period and check their rudiments; and if their rudiments are found out, we put that auditor off auditing. I think that's only fair. I don't think you have a sufficient – that is, some of you, certainly – don't have a sufficient respect for the fact that you have to be able to read an E-Meter, that the E-Meter reads the pc and that it has to be cleaned up on a question.
LRH: That's right. That was an interesting thing I actually did narrow it down to just that, and – since then. PC: Hm.


And frankly, I'm very happy to find out about this. I'm more than delighted, because I've been looking at some of the gray faces that are creeping up and down the hall and let me tell you, I knew there was something awry here. And I've been nattering about it and talking with Mary Sue about it, and your Instructors, for some weeks now.
LRH: So we'll see if it's still there. PC: Great. LRH: Okay.


And, finally, we find out what it is: it's one more plague of not being able to read the E-Meter. Now, that's quite what it is. It's just a gross auditing error.
Is it all right with you if I begin this session now? PC: Yeah. LRH: Good.


The grossest auditing error there is, is no auditing And next to that in rank is the inability to read the E-Meter. There are auditors which actually will believe the preclear but not the meter; they think the meter is registering something else. TV DEMO: 2  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE Now, we've got to reverse that thing You never believe the pc; you only believe the meter.
Start of session. Has the session started for you? PC: Yeah.


We've got to get these things clean, and we'll get some auditing results going. Now, these results have been very poor in the last few weeks and I have been blowing my brains out trying to figure out why. And now I find out why: you're not reading E-Meters.
Not really. LRH: All right. All right.


So there's a push on. And the demonstration tonight is – well, first and foremost – just so an Instructor in each room can call out the meter reads for you. And I want you to notice that there is some coordination between the question I ask and the pc and the meter.
Here it is. PC: Yeah. LRH: Start of session.


I know it's very hard to connect these, but there actually is a coordination. And you don't leave that pc, you understand, with that acting, and that's it. That's it.
PC: Okay. TV DEMO: 2  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. What goals would you like to set for this session?


That is auditing. I mean, if I could lay it with a branding iron I would. But that is what you are doing That is your gross auditing error.
PC: To be able to get to sleep easier at night. I've been having trouble getting to sleep. LRH: All right.


This is why, when you list, you are not blowing people to Clear. This is the whole story. The pcs are not in-session.
PC: The last few nights. And to . . . LRH: Good.


The listing does no good because the rudiments are out. I mean, the whole chain of evil proceeds from that particular point. Now, actually, the first thing I'm going to do here is simply check some old What questions.
PC: ... to stay in present time when I'm studying When I sort of run out of – get out of present time, find myself read ing over a paragraph of a bulletin or something like that without reading it. LRH: Okay. All right.


Now, the story of this particular pc is that some Prepchecking was set up and then I noticed the pc wasn't looking so good. So I had another auditor check all the What questions in order to make sure they were flat. Now, it was reported to me that all these What questions that the pc had been asked were flat.
Any other goals? PC: That ought to do it. LRH: All right.


And now, I haven't gone over this, but in a nasty, evil, suspicious mood – you know, all Rons have two faces; one is good and the other is horrible; you realize that – in that nasty, suspicious mood, we are simply going to check this. This is not going to take very long. And then, after that, I'm going to give you a demonstration of fish and fumble.
Got an ARC break there? All right, thank you. Any goals you'd like to set for life or livingness?


That's not even a technical term, but I'm just going to show you how you fish and fumble around – what you actually can do with an E-Meter. I'm not even going to give you a very stylized demonstration of a session; it's just what you can do with an E-Meter. E-Meters work!
PC: I'd like to – well, I have a goal: it's – it's – it's an imp – almost impossible goal, but maybe it's possible, you know? LRH: Yeah? PC: To get Class II by the end of the month, or by the end of this period.


Every once in a while people don't think they work. And when that happens, pcs look grim and gray, and nobody goes Clear. It happened last September.
But, you know, it's getting pretty close there. LRH: All right. Anything else?


It's happened again here now. So, okay. Now, I'm in no militant mood, particularly, about this.
PC: I'd like to be auditing next week. Start auditing. LRH: All right.


I simply want to drive it home with cannonballs. Okay? All right.
PC: Champing at the bit. I want to – like those – a little like those commandos who want to, you know, get out. LRH: All right.


Here we go. Have you got the right folder here? PC: It's me.
Okay, Fred. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. All right.


LRH: Yes, yes, yes. This is the right folder. All right.
Now, let's see. What process was working on you? It was Touch, wasn't it?


All right. Sit down. Now, don't faint and don't drop through the floor, Smokey, because . . .
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.


Push it forward. TV DEMO: 3  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: How did you guess? LRH: Pick up the cans.
Thank you. Put the cans down. All right.


Now don't worry about it, because there's nothing very bad going to happen, it's not going to take very long, and I'm not going to reveal everything PC: Well, it'd be all right. LRH: Yes, it would be, wouldn't it? PC: Yeah.
We're going to run a little bit of Touch here. All right. Touch that table.


He said the combination of the stairs and uh . . . Gosh! Are you sure you want me?
Thank you. Touch that wood. Thank you.


LRH: Hm? PC: You know? LRH: You didn't believe it.
Touch that ashtray. Thank you. Touch that chair.


PC: No! LRH: Oh, I see. PC: I thought you wanted Wing You know, sometimes you get our names mixed up.
Thank you. Touch those cans. Good.


LRH: Yeah, I know I do. That's because he's the fire-eater, you know? I mean, he's the guy that goes to fires.
Give them a squeeze. Squeeze 'em. All right.


PC: Yeah. Eat 'em up. LRH: Anyhow, honey, I'm not going to do this in Model Session.
Squeeze 'em. Hey, that's a difference! All right, thank you.


All I'm going to do here is simply check these What questions. And they are not very revelatory, but I want to see a few things are . . . PC: Well, they're funny.
All right. That's it. Now – check this on the meter.


There's one on there that's really a ball. LRH: All right. PC: Wait till you see it.
Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. Thank you. Relatively clean.


LRH: Now, your . . . Well, I'll tell you the history of this. PC: Hm-hm.
PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 3  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Just a little slowdown; doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Feel better?


LRH: I looked at you many weeks ago and I said, “She isn't doing so good.” you see? PC: Hm-hm. LRH: So I said, “Who's been prepchecking her?” and so forth.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Hey, what do you know? That was fast enough, wasn't it?


And then I had an auditor recheck all these What questions . . . PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 4  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: . . . just to make sure they were flat, you see?
All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties? Thank you.


And then I took a look at you after he'd done so, and he said they were all flat. PC: Hm. LRH: See, he said they were all flat.
That's clean. Since the last time I audited you . . . PC: A lot of water's gone under the bridge.


Yeah. I don't believe it. PC: Well, I didn't.
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? I have an action there. PC: Well, I – I – I – I got an overt against Robin, I guess.


LRH: See, I just think he wasn't reading the E-Meter. PC: Hm. LRH: Now, that's beside the point.
LRH: Okay. PC: I – I thought that was pretty clean. Anyway, when I – I left the – I left that post, I – I wrote a whole series of notes . . .


But let's get back here. Here's your old CCH sessions – rattlety-bang of paper. PC: Yeah.
LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . explaining the job to ever – whoever. I – I addressed them to Franchise Secretary from Fred.


They're fun. LRH: Yeah. You had a lot of CCHs.
LRH: Hm. PC: Whole series of notes explaining the job, explaining various aspects, vari – you know, the various things I was working on. And I – I wasn't exactly sure Robin was going to come on the post, but I was pretty sure.


Now . . . PC: Wonder if that reads a heartbeat. LRH: We're just – I'm just examining your folder here, honey.
And – but I thought it would be kind of funny if I – you know, it would be interesting, if I . . . LRH: All right. PC: . . . wrote these notes and told Robin how to do the job.


PC: Okay. LRH: There we are. And I think here is this horrible one that you probably…so forth.
But anyway, it was kind of an overt on Robin. LRH: Okay. PC: It was.


PC: That one. LRH: Not very bad. PC: It's not so horrible.
LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. PC: Yeah.


It's just funny. LRH: All right, honey. PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything you are withholding? Got a little tick there. PC: Well, it's uh – I uh . . .


LRH: Now, all I'm going to do is just check these questions. Okay? PC: All right.
LRH: That's it. PC: . . . this friend of mine – it's about this – this . . . Remember about – suspicions about that key and about . . .


LRH: All right. PC: You mean I'm on there? LRH: Huh?
TV DEMO: 4  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . this friend ? This is about that key.


PC: I'm on there? LRH: You're on there? PC: Yeah, I am on the meter over there?
I – I never got in touch with him. I wrote him a letter . . . LRH: Hm-mm.


LRH: Oh, yeah. Your meter is functioning fine. Perfect.
PC: . . . saying, “Oh, you know, gee, I haven't seen you, and give me a call.” I got the letter back – no – n-n-not at – not at that address. LRH: All right. PC: You know?


TV DEMO: 5  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: That's good. LRH: Yeah. Working fine.
And I was, you know, wondering what – what happened. Something's – something's wrong there, you see? LRH: Hm-mm.


PC: Terrible? Does it show my heartbeat? It's beating fast.
PC: I have to check in . . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . because, (a) he wouldn't move without letting me know his new address.


LRH: Well, I'm not even going to try to put you at ease particularly. PC: No. I'm fine.
LRH: Hm. PC: Um – (b) I might have wrote it to the wrong address . . . LRH: Hm.


LRH: All right. PC: Doing all right by my window. LRH: The question is, “What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom?” All right.
PC: . . . but I – I – I don't think so. LRH: Mm-mm. PC: And something wrong there.


Let me check that. What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right.
I have to look into that. LRH: All right. Very good.


What about catching catfish? PC: You're reading my mind. LRH: No, I'm just trying to see what the needle pattern is here.
All right. Let me check this on the meter. PC: Yeah.


What about catching catfish? What about catching catfish? What about . . .
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? Little tick, much smaller. PC: Yeah.


I'm banging on something here, honey; I won't be able to check these things out. Tell me what it is. PC: Well, I just told you.
LRH: That's it. PC: I had a party at my place, and some girls over, and kind of a wild party. LRH: All right.


My heart was beating fast. LRH: All right. PC: Oh.
Okay. PC: I told you about that, I think . . . LRH: Yeah.


LRH: I didn't get that, huh? Was that it? PC: Well, I thought you did.
PC: . . . probably the group, you know . . . LRH: Okay. TV DEMO: 5  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . but not about that party.


LRH: All right. Now, let me ask this test question again. What about catching catfish?
LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding?


You're getting a little bippity-bop here on the heart all right. PC: Nm-hm. Well, is it – is it my eyes too?
That's cleaner than a wolf's tooth. Very good? PC: Yep.


LRH: But it's also my voice. No, no, no, it's not your eyes. What about your eyes?
LRH: All right. Do you have a present time problem? Thank you.


Go ahead, swing your eyeballs from the left to the right. Swing . . . PC: Really?
That's clean. Okay. Now, I told you about fishing around here.


LRH: your eyeballs from the left to the right. All right. Swing them from the left to the right.
PC: Yeah. LRH: And we're going to do some fish and fumble . . . PC: Hm-hm.


Getting no significant read here. But there is something reading on this meter. PC: Oh.
LRH: . . . see where we wind up here. And mysteriously, I have no tick-tick. PC: Well...


LRH: There is something . . . PC: It must be me. TV DEMO: 6  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: ... reading on here.
LRH: Obviously, you're . . . What were you going to say? PC: I don't know.


There must be some kind of a - I don't think it's you. Let's… PC: I think it was checked up all right. LRH: Let me check this.
It was on that chain, and it was on that past life, or connected u with it. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: Maybe if I found that again and I could – I don't know if it was that or something else, or what.


PC: Um, um-um. LRH: Squeeze your cans. PC: All right.
LRH: Well, that, you know . . . PC: It was something – it was something about messing with little girls . . . LRH: Yeah?


LRH: Squeeze your cans. No, it's just your havingness is out the bottom. PC: Yeah, that's true.
PC: . . . you knows? LRH: Yeah. PC: Something – messing with little girls . . .


I know. LRH: All right. What's your Havingness Process?
LRH: There it is. There it is. There it is.


PC: Oh saints, I don't know. The last one that was used was “touching things.” LRH: Huh? Touching things.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Ha-ha, ha-ha! PC: Uhh.


PC: Touch . . . Yeah. Hm-hm.
LRH: All right. Well, we didn't have to fish very long there, did we? PC: No.


LRH: Anybody ever run reach on you? PC: No. LRH: Hm?
LRH: Something about messing with little girls. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 6  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: And just like that, we get it back.


Well, let's see if it works. All right. Squeeze the cans.
All right, let me check it now. PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay?


Thank you. All right. Look around here and find something you could reach.
What about messing with little girls? Well, that isn't quite the tick-tick. PC: No.


PC: Oh, I can reach that chair. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Now, let me see if we can get it just a little closer than that. There it is. What did you just think of?


PC: Oh, I could reach that couch. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
PC: Dang! I – I – I just look – kind of looked at a little something there, and kind of looked away. I can't – you know, sort of a hunk of something, you know?


PC: I could reach that picture. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. PC: One of those gray hunks of something . . . LRH: That's right.


PC: The curtain. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.
PC: ... that don't have any definite . . . LRH: There it is again. PC: I – it looks like a – a rocket ship nose, or something, or – or a bomb nose, or something like this.


All right. That's doing exactly nothing PC: Uh-uh. LRH: All right.
I don't know. LRH: Yeah. PC: Is that it, or . . .


Okay? PC: Okay. LRH: Put your cans down.
LRH: Yeah. PC: ... or not? I . . .


PC: All right. TV DEMO: 7  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right. Thank you.
LRH: Well, let me check this over again. What about messing with little girls? Ahh, there – there's a tiny little slowdown there.


Touch the table. Good. Touch the chair.
PC: I looked at that thing again, when you mentioned it. LRH: Something here about messing with little girls in the nose of a rocket ship? PC: I – that's what the – I looked at that, and there was something connected there or someplace; I don't know what.


Good. Touch the table. Good.
LRH: Yeah. PC: But, you see, it . . . LRH: Yeah.


Touch the chair. Good. Touch the table.
PC: It's a – it's kind of a, you know, what's happening here? You know? How come – how come this connects up like this or something like that, you know ?


Good. Touch the chair. All right.
LRH: All right. Well, I'll find it. PC: Yeah.


Pick up the cans. All right. Squeeze the cans.
TV DEMO: 7  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: I'll find it. Now – there it is! Who are you looking at?


All right. Just hold them loosely. PC: Okay.
PC: Well, it – that was th-th-those two little girls that we talked about in that Prepchecking session that I . . . LRH: That's it. PC: ... those two twins.


LRH: That's all right. PC: They do kind of . . . Oh, I guess I´m big.
LRH: Uh-huh. PC: They were either twins or – or sisters that I messed with . . . LRH: Uh-uh.


LRH: All right. PC: There, now. LRH: Squeeze the cans.
PC: ... in – back in early – early days in my life. LRH: That's it. PC: I was ten years old, or so.


All right. Apparently – may be doing something PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Put the cans down.
And so . . . LRH: And we were going down that chain. PC: Yeah.


All right. Touch the table. Good.
Yeah. We kind of went past them, and . . . LRH: All right.


Touch the chair. Good. Touch the table.
Let me see if I can get a What question that's right into the middle there. PC: Hm. LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls?


Good. Touch the chair. Good.
That's it. PC: Is it? LRH: I get a tinier, smaller read.


Touch the table. Good. Touch the chair.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I might be able to vary that just a little bit. There it is.


Good. All right. Pick up the cans.
What's that? PC: That's a picture of sexually interfering with a little girl. LRH: Yeah.


All right. Squeeze them. All right.
PC: I don't think it's this lifetime. I mean, I don't know . . . LRH: Well, that doesn't matter.


Hold them down in your lap . . . PC: Okay. LRH: . . . just like you were before.
PC: Yeah. That's that sex pervert or . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
PC: . . . probably a sex-pervert thing. But that's tied up with that other – that – that . . . Well, it – I – I think it's the same little girl as in that other picture I've had so many years, I looked at.


Okay. That's not your Havingness Process either. PC: Well, really, one hasn't been found on me.
LRH: What was that? The . . . PC: The one of having a little girl with her panties down, and with a – switching her.


LRH: You have never had a Havingness Process found? PC: No. Sometimes “Point out something' works fairly fine.
TV DEMO: 8  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And seeing – this picture is seeing an – an older man do this. Watching it from the bushes, something like this . . .


Sometimes “Look around here and find something you could have.” LRH: Well, what's the variation? PC: Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. LRH: Have you ever invalidated a Havingness Process?
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . in – in the yard of this . . . LRH: Right.


PC: Uh-uh. Oh, I like them. LRH: Hm?
PC: . . . place with . . . LRH: Right. PC: . . . a stream going by or something like that.


All right. PC: Oh, there was one I didn't like. LRH: What one?
LRH: Right. PC: I've had that picture so long, you know? LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Uh – “Something you could confront.”  TV DEMO: 8  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Hm? PC: “Something you would rather not confront. Something you could confront.” LRH: All right.
PC: And this – I'm not sure if it's the same girl or not. LRH: All right. Now, hold your cans still there and let me check it.


Good. Thank you. PC: I invalidated that one.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check another little What here. PC: Hm.


LRH: All right. Thank you very much. Squeeze the cans.
LRH: What about punishing little girls? Clean. PC: Hm.


All right. Thank you. All right.
LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? It's not giving me the same read as the double tick. PC: Yeah.


Here's the first command. Look around here and find something you could confront. PC: That camera.
LRH: There – what's that? PC: Switching little girls. LRH: What about switching little girls?


LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront. PC: That thing up there in the corner.
That isn't it. PC: Eating little girls? LRH: Beating little girls?


LRH: Okay. Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Beating or eating? LRH: Eating PC: Eating little girls. TV DEMO: 9  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.


PC: The fireplace. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront.
What about eating little girls? Well, I get a something of a reaction there. What about eating little girls?


PC: Uh – the binoculars. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
It cleaned. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.


PC: That uh – sign on the door. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront.
Let me try another What question here. What about stealing little girls? I get an action here.


PC: Those leases. LRH: All right. Okay.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You see, the reason I'm putting that together isn't a shot in the dark. you were talking about taking over a body before this lifetime. PC: Yeah.


Squeeze the cans. Okay. Now, you've got a trick squeeze here.
LRH: See, and I was . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . getting a reaction on that.


PC: Mm. LRH: Now, you just put them down in your lap . . . PC: Mm.
Now, what about taking over little girls? I don't get the same reaction. PC: Hm-hm.


LRH: ... the back of your hands in your lap. PC: Nm-hm. LRH: All right.
LRH: What about stealing little girls? I get an instant read on that. What about stealing little girls?


Now squeeze them. PC: Okay? LRH: Okay.
It's not the same instant read I'm fishing for, however. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: There it is.


Yeah. But you know, all I want is an even pressure down and up. PC: Hm-hm.
There it is. It was just for a minute and we went by it. PC: Boy, that's awfully fast, you know?


LRH: You know? Just let them go. Do it again.
It's – it's . . . Boy, it's something that's really occluded. LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Mm-hm. PC: This okay? Hm?
PC: Ha! No – all around it, but I can't . . . LREI: All right.


TV DEMO: 9  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Now, just hold them naturally. PC: Hm-hm. My hands are kind of hot.
PC: . . . can't get to it. LRH: All right. PC: But I keep popping – keep thinking about – on the same line, I don't know if it's just jazz chat or what.


LRH: That's all right. Doesn't matter. PC: Okay.
But some incident I ran – some past life incident, way back. LRH: Hm-mm. PC: Spaceship – just wound up taking over the . . .


LRH: Now, squeeze the cans. All right. Let them go.
Supposed to burn off this planet and save one city and rape the city, or something like that. LRH: What's this now? Take a . . .


All right, that's fine. All right. What do you think about this process?
PC: I – I – I. TV DEMO: 10  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . a burner . . . PC: Yeah, to burn off the whole planet.


PC: Well, it's all right. LRH: Well, are you just saying that? What do you think about this process?
LRH: Oh, you burnt off a whole – I got it. PC: Yeah, I was supposed to blow – burn the whole thing off, but I saved one city, and I raped the city before I burned it off LRH: Yeah. PC: And part of that was it – at least as I came up in – I don't know, it – hell, it picked them – I mean, it's just not . . .


PC: Well, I really could confront any of them, you see, that I see. LRH: Oh, I see. The whole thing is a bad answer, is that right?
LRH: Well, now there – there's the double tick. PC: Yeah? It's – I take – took all the – asked all the five-year-old girls in the – all the five-year-old blond little girls in the town into the palace, and raped them all.


PC: Yeah. It is. LRH: I get it.
LRH: Hm-hm. We're getting the tick-tick. PC: Yeah.


All right. In other words, you could confront any of it? PC: Yeah.
Huh! LRH: We did. PC: And then – did that and my – I ordered my men, or my men and I raped – raped all these little girls . . .


LRH: All right. And yet you're having to answer, so there's some missed auditing commands in that Havingness Process. Is that correct?
LRH: Mm-m. There's your tick-tick. PC: . . . five-year-old girls.


PC: It's possible, yeah. LRH: Huh? PC: Because, really . . .
And then afterward, we burned the city off. LRH: All right. Let's see if I can make up a What here.


LRH: Possible? PC: ...I could. Yes!
PC: Hm. LRH: What about raping a city? All right.


LRH: Well, is . . . PC: All right, it is. LRH: ... is it?
What about raping little girls? What about raping little girls? No.


PC: Yes! LRH: All right. Go on.
What about that auditing session? What about that auditing session that you ran that in? That's it.


PC: Because I could confront the things that I say I'd rather not. It's . . . LRH: So you just had to make up answers for the “rather not”?
There's a latent on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.


PC: Hm-hm. Hm-hm. LRH: Well, that's very interesting.
What auditor was that? PC: Think it was Stan. LRH: Who?


Very interesting  TV DEMO: 10  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm. LRH: When was that? PC: Wow, it must have been in January.
PC: Stan Stromfeld. LRH: Yeah? PC: Think it was him.


LRH: Quite a while ago? PC: Yeah. Quite a while ago.
Must have been him. LRH: Was it? I don't get a reaction here.


When I first got here. About . . . LRH: All right.
PC: No? TV DEMO: 11  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Was it Stan Stromfeld that ran that? I don't get any reaction on that.


Okay. PC: ... the second or third week, I think. LRH: Good.
PC: I'll be darned. LRH: Somebody earlier than that? PC: Janine?


All right. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Now, let's proceed with just the one side of it.
No. Unless it was New York. Oh, maybe it was Doris.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Marge ? Damn. I don – I can't remember . . .


PC: That wall. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
LRH: All right. Let's put it together here. PC: ... who it was.


PC: You. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Raping – past lives and . . . LRH: There – you got the – there's the ghost of a tick. PC: Denise?


PC: Mirror. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
LRH: Yeah. There it is. Microscopically smaller.


PC: That chair. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Yeah, I know it. you . . . Something there. LRH: I just want to know what auditor it was.


PC: That camera. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: ...I'm not sure. you know? I mean, I – I – I don't really get anything. LRH: All right.


PC: Curtain. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Well, let me help you out, may I? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: The ashtray. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Was it a girl auditor? Was it a male auditor? Male auditor.


PC: That thing. LRH: All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Did it happen in the United States? Did it happen in Paris?


All right. Now, something very funny happens here . . . TV DEMO: 11  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm.
All right, did it happen in Paris? Now I've got a double tick. PC: Hm.


LRH: ...is the needle only comes halfway back. So, do you continue to grip the cans afterwards? PC: Well, now this is . . .
LRH: What are you thinking about? Happening in Paris? PC: Vincent?


My hands kind of stick, you know? They're long and uh – the hands are a little bit wet . . . LRH: All right.
Mario? Maybe it was Jack Campbell. LRH: All right.


PC: ... and so they cling. LRH: All right. PC: See?
Was it Jack Campbell? PC: Maybe it was. LRH: All right.


LRH: I see. PC: And... LRH: I get it.
Was that auditor Jack Campbell? PC: Yeah, I guess it was. LRH: There's something here about it now.


PC: And they stay. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: You see, they don't uh – uh – be like they were before.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm gettin . . . PC: Yeah, I guess it was. 'Cause he – he – he – he ran me on RT-3, think it was – OT 3.


LRH: Mm-hm. PC: They really don't. LRH: All right.
LRH: Yeah. TV DEMO: 12  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And it kind of went way back . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


Put them in your lap. Now, just lay them just lay them down in your lap. PC: Okay.
PC: ... into a lot of stuff . . . LRH: Now we're getting a double tick here. PC: ... past life stuff.


LRH: All right. Good enough. Squeeze them.
Yeah. There was that. LRH: All right.


Thank you. All right. Look around here and find something you could confront.
You remember this now? PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – that thing, whatever it is. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay. And, now, did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?


PC: Uh – the whole line of shelves there. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Undoubtedly! No doubt. LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – the top of that uh – curtain. LRH: All right. Good enough.
PC: Yeah, I think he did. LRH: All right. All right.


Squeeze the cans. All right. That is reducing the amount of squeeze.
Okay. Let me check that on the meter. Did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?


PC: Hm. Really? LRH: Okay?
I get a reaction. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


TV DEMO: 12  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: I feel better. LRH: Yeah, I know you probably do. PC: Mm.
Now . . . PC: It – it's like saying, did Jack Campbell ever and it you ? You know, I mean, it's like the same question.


LRH: But that's basically because you got an invalidation off, huh? Isn't it? Or is it?
In fast, it was – it was funny. LRH: Now, we're taking off from that as a Zero question. PC: All right.


PC: Mm. LRH: What is it? PC: Probably.
Ooh. LRH: All right. PC: There must be something there?


LRH: Yeah. Do you feel better about that? PC: Yeah.
Line charge? Or something. LRH: Okay.


Because I hadn't said that to anyone. LRH: All right. Good.
Now let me check out a possible One. PC: All right. LRH: Okay.


Now let's try this other one. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: The one I started with originally.
What did you successfully hide from Jack Campbell? All right, let me check that. Now let me check another one.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you could reach.
What have you done to Jack Campbell? Well, we're going to take that first. PC: Yeah, it would be a good idea, I think.


PC: The couch. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Rightly or wrongly, we will take that first, because it'll flatten rather rapidly. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 13  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.


PC: That door. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
We will test that now. We know that you have withheld from him. PC: Hm-hm.


PC: The venetian blinds. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: All right. Would that be doing something to him? PC: The action of withholding from him?


PC: The telephone. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Yeah, we actually are wrong here in phrasing this What question . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . but I'm just testing this thing Is there a specific overt?


PC: Uh – folder. LRH: Okay. Squeeze the cans.
PC: Uh... LRH: I get a tick. PC: Yeah.


All right. Now, have I missed a withhold on you? PC: No.
It – it's a kind of a – a specific overt, many times, in a sense, you know? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Well, the first overt, really, is that I considered that kind of – something was not quite right, or I didn't quite . . .


LRH: Ah, what did you just think of though? PC: I Just thought, my God, could he have? LRH: All right.
Well, when I first took the Communication Course in Paris, this . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . you know, in Scientology – the Scientology Communication Course – you take the Communication Course.


Okay. PC: But I think I've poured out all my . . . TV DEMO: 13  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Think you got all that taped, huh?
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I – I didn't have the money for the course, and I told him that – oh, I was – I – I knew he liked me. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. All right.
PC: All right, I knew he and Gernie liked me, I knew they were interested in me, they liked my work in the theater, blah-blah-blah. LRH: Hm. PC: And so I said, “Well, I – I – well, I – I'm – gee, I'd like to take this course, Jack, but I – you know, I can't pay for it.


Now, this needle has become quite quiet compared to what it was. But it seems to me just a little sticky. PC: Oh.
Don't have the money.” LRH: Hm. PC: Like that. Now, I might have been able to serape the money up if I had really – you know. you know, if he'd said, “Well, no, you go after the money and come and take the course.” LRH: All right.


My goodness. LRH: But it's become quite quiet. PC: Mm-hm.
TV DEMO: 14  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: But he said – 'I don't have the money. I – I can't take this . . .” and he said, “All right. It's all right,” he said, “We – we want you to get the course.


LRH: Now, have you become upset about anything? PC: Well, I'm always upset. LRH: Well, have you become upset about anything in the last minute or two?
You can pay me later. “I said, “Fine.” LRH: Well, tell me this now. Good. Tell me this now: Was that – the question we're on is doing something to him.


PC: Oh, no. Don't think so. LRH: What do you mean, you're always upset?
Now, what specifically did you do to him there? PC: I kind of conned him into – I conned him into giving me the course for nothing You know? LRH: All right.


Go on, finish what you were telling me. PC: Well – well, you see, this is on TE And I – I feel really upset about it. But I feel better about it now.
Good. You conned him into it. PC: Yeah.


But, wow! LRH: It upset you? PC: Yes!
After – yeah . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... a fashion.


LRH: All right. All right. Has anything bitten yet?
LRH: That's it. All right. Now, what about conning Jack Campbell?


Anything bitten you? PC: You mean here? LRH: The TV camera suddenly blown a fuse?
PC: Yeah, that's a good What question. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.


PC: Not a thing. That's – that's what's amazing. LRH: All right.
That's a good What question. Very good. LRH: Good.


Okay. Well, go on now. you want to say anything more about that? How about it?
Well, that's the one we are going to work. PC: Yeah, it makes me sweat a little bit. LRH: All right.


PC: No. It – uh – it just doesn't seem like it was. LRH: Doesn't seem so bad.
Very good. When was that? PC: Summer of 1968.


PC: Uh – I seem – uh-uh. LRH: What did you think might happen? PC: Well, you know, it looks different from – when you're here than it does down there.
LRH: Very good. Is that all there is to it? PC: Oh, I thought, well, if – you know, what do I have to lose here, you know?


LRH: Doesn't it! PC: Yes. TV DEMO: 14  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Oh, I see.
Nothing – nothing in this course, and, well, figured on paying him later on. LRH: All right. Good enough.


Maybe you're running out some of the stuff that was . . . PC: Uh – it's possible. LRH: . . . left.
All right. And what might have appeared there? PC: Well, I could have shake – shaken some money up from someplace, I think . . .


PC: Oh, like I would – oh, like I was afraid that you were going to have me up here last week. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: I breathed a sigh of relief I didn't even think of it this week.
LRH: All right. PC: ... to pay for it. LRH: Very good.


LRH: All right. You had a surprise. PC: Mm-hm.
And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, Jack didn't. I – I – I – the fact I could have gotten the money someplace to pay for it, I think.


LRH: All right. Put your cans there in your lap. PC: In...
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Very, very good.


LRH: Yeah. Just – don't – just hold them with your . . . PC: All right.
Okay. When was that? Very specifically.


LRH: . . . backs of your hands down. All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
TV DEMO: 15  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: July of – gee, the Moscow Art Theatre was in town. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I think it was the end of June.


All right. We apparently are . . . Do it again.
I think it was the end of June. End of June in 1968. LRH: All right.


Squeeze the cans. There's something real fluky here – what's happening I don't quite know what's going on, because this is not a proper can squeeze. PC: Uh-uh.
Good. And what else is there about this? PC: Well, I – I – I – I went on and took the course, and conned him again into giving me the HPA Course without paying for it over there.


LRH: It doesn't release. It simply falls and that's it. PC: Well, my hands do stick to the cans.
LRH: All right. Okay. And what didn't appear there?


LRH: Well now, are you giving a can squeeze because more skin touches the can? Bring your hands up here on the table. Let's see . . .
PC: Fifty thousand francs for the HPA Course. LRH: Oh-ho-ho, I see. PC: Still hasn't appeared.


PC: Yes, I guess. LRH: . . . what this is all about. Now, is that can fitted snugly down there?
LRH: All right. And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, the – the people who I owed money to didn't find out that I was spending more money or, you know . . .


PC: Yeah. LRH: Huh? PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... putting myself into more debt . . . LRH: I see.


LRH: Now, I don't want more palm against the can. I just want . . . PC: Oh, it's nice and fitting.
PC: ... in a sense. LRH: All right. PC: Kind of a little bit of an overt against them.


TV DEMO: 15  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Why don't you just squeeze it between there and there. Now, we're going – I'm going to squeeze it for you. PC: Oh, there.
Very funny. LRH: What? PC: Just getting more debts without paying them off LRH: I see.


LRH: Oh, there! PC: All right. LRH: Yes, there's something going on here.
PC: You know, something like that. LRH: All right. Very good.


All right. There's no can squeeze there at all. You're just pushing more . . .
Very good. All right. Now, let's test this What question.


Yes. You were just pushing more – I suppose that was invisible on the meter, but . . . Go on, squeeze it between there and there like I showed you.
PC: Hm. LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? Have to test it again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


Well, how do you like . . . PC: I didn't feel the can squeeze. LRH: Yeah, so that's it.
That seems to have a tiny little bit of reaction on it. Let me ask you this. Is there any earlier moment there?


But you're – what you were doing before was wrapping more hand around the can. PC: Hm. Could be.
Is there anything earlier, before that Comm Course? What's that? PC: Yeah, had coffee or something with Jack and Gernie...


LRH: Yeah. Well, then, it wasn't releasing PC: No. It just stayed.
LRH: Yeah? TV DEMO: 16  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . and – I – Jack paid for the coffee or the drink or something – earlier, when I first met him. And I kind of conned him there a little bit. you know, he paid for the drink.


LRH: That's all right. But that's because the only fall we were getting on you was because more skin is touching the can. Not because of . . .
LRH: All right. Well, when was that? PC: Was after a play.


PC: I'm a terrible – uh – I'm a terrible havingness case. LRH: Hm? Yes.
It – it was – well, it must have been after a – it must have been that spring, along in March or something like that. LRH: Get a tick-tick. PC: Yeah.


This havingness thing is fascinating here. PC: Mm! Fascinates me, too.
In March . . . LRH: Yeah. All right.


LRH: Well, what goes on here? PC: Low havingness perhaps. LRH: Yes!
Good enough. PC: . . . that year. Yeah.


This I will agree with. PC: Mm-mm. LRH: But what's that?
LRH: All right. What else is there to that? PC: I just – that was the first time I saw him.


PC: Well, now . . . LRH: What's your idea of this? Go ahead and tell me.
That night. LRH: That's the first time you ever saw him? PC: Yeah.


Go on. PC: Well, you know, I don't have any idea of it at all. I just know that I did have a – a – a havingness thing.
LRH: Yeah. Bang PC: Yeah. Gernie invited me for a drink after an American Embassy Little Theatre group . . .


You see? LRH: Mm-hm. TV DEMO: 16  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . production. LRH: All right.


And I still do. LRH: Hm! How do you account for this?
PC: I'm not sure if it was hers or somebody else's. And – with her and Jack, and I saw this character first appear. LRH: All right.


PC: I haven't the faintest idea. you know, people are like that. LRH: You know that . . . All right.
Okay. And what might have appeared there? PC: Hm.


All right, honey. Okay. Well, this is an activity I didn't expect to get into here.
Well, I don't know. A couple of hundred francs from my pocket, I guess, to pay for the drinks, could have appeared. LRH: All right.


Squeeze the cans like that again. PC: That's what I was afraid of too, you see? LRH: Yeah, but that's all right.
All right. PC: I think I was broke, or something, and I had to con him. you know, I couldn't pay the drink. I don't think I had any money on me, or something like this.


PC: All right. LRH: Squeeze the cans again. No, I mean it's a darn good thing I started checking up on this.
It was funny. LRH: All right. Very good. who didn't find out about it?


PC: Why? LRH: Because if you'd ever had an auditor, he would have straightened it up. PC: Well, I've had a lot of auditors.
PC: Well Jack and – Jack and Gernie didn't. LRH: All right. Very good.


LRH: I don't think so. PC: I've had six. LRH: Nobody has straightened up your Havingness Process.
Very good. All right. Let me test this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


PC: Well, maybe I don't look like a havingness case. I mean, you know, I might not. LRH: I'm not invalidating your auditor.
Still got an action. Did you meet him any earlier than that? TV DEMO: 17  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Not that I know of LRH: Ah-ah-ah.


I wouldn't do that in a normal session. But you're not in a Model Session. PC: No.
PC: Yeah? LRH: You meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? PC: Man, I don't remember if I do.


LRH: I was just slapping some people's ears. Put your cans down. PC: All right.
LRH: Come on, come on, come on. Did you meet him earlier than that? I got a reaction here.


LRH: All right. PC: My ears just got red. LRH: Come on, I wasn't slapping your ears; I was slapping their ears.
PC: No. LRH: Let me test this very carefully, before I send you off on a wild-goose chase. PC: Yeah.


Now, look-a-here. Touch your ears. PC: Hm-hm.
LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? You've got a reaction here, man.


LRH: Thank you. Touch the top of your head. PC: Hm-hm.
PC: I'll be darned. Jack Campbell earlier. LRH: Yes, Jack Campbell earlier.


LRH: Thank you. Touch your chest. TV DEMO: 17  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Ha!
PC: I knew Gernie before I knew Jack. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: The first I remember Gernie is meeting her after one of my productions there.


LRH: Good. Touch your stomach. PC: Yep.
LRH: All right. PC: And, I heard about Jack. Damn!


LRH: All right. Touch your shoulders. Good.
Or something, and I was kind of curious about him. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And...


Touch your stomach. Good. Touch the top of your head.
LRH: What are you plowing around with there? You got a double tick. PC: Yeah.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Thank you. Good.
It was meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... after that production . . .


Touch the end of your nose. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Good.
LRH: Right. PC: ... in – in – in the foyer of the . . . LRH: All right.


Touch your stomach. Good. Touch your shoulders.
PC: ... American Students and Artists Center . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


All right. Thank you. Pick up the cans.
TV DEMO: 18  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: ... and – this – there's some unknown there. I can't remember about this – that . . . Something . . .


All right. Squeeze them. PC: Better?
I – I wondered where Jack was, or something like this. I'd never met him, you see? LRH: Hm-hm.


LRH: Do it again. That's all right. All right.
PC: But I wondered where Jack was . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... or something.


Mm-hm! PC: Maybe I'm not very strong. LRH: Oh, that's all right.
You know? I mean, there's – there's something like that. LRH: Hm-hm.


I'm not going to worry about this. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.
PC: This – about all I got. LRH: All right. Just experimentally, was there a desire to withhold yourself from meeting Jack?


Once more we're going to try out this reach thing PC: All right. LRH: But we're going to try it out in negative. PC: All right.
No. All right. Let me check this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That door.
Still reacts. PC: I intended on meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Good.


LRH: All right. Good enough. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: I'm not reaching the window.
PC: ... I intended to get – get her interested in my theater project. LRH: Ah!


LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: Uh – that light switch. LRH: Good.
PC: And maybe that's conning Jack a little bit, by getting Gernie interested. LRH: All right. PC: Inadvertently conning Jack – conning Gernie into – into getting her to back my theater project.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: The ceiling. LRH: Good.
LRH: All right. PC: Because I heard she was important, you know . . . LRH: All right.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: Oh, that weigher. TV DEMO: 18  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
PC: ... she had connections . . . LRH: Now we got little tick-tick. Yeah.


Now, how do you feel on this – for a minute? PC: All right. LRH: Does that make you feel strange?
PC: ... and money, and – yeah – money and connections, and . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... may – maybe it's kind of overt against Jack, and conning him too, or something.


PC: Uh – no. I just started feeling here and it's sort of echoish. LRH: Oh, all right.
LRH: Well, you don't have to add it up to him. Were you trying . . . PC: Yeah.


Good. Squeeze the cans. Oh, I think it's a tiny bit increased.
LRH: ... to con Gernie? TV DEMO: 19  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. LRH: Hm?


PC: Oh. LRH: Has it annoyed you? PC: My space is kind of small.
PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Huh? PC: My space is kind of small. LRH: All right.
LRH: All right. Now is there a missed withhold right there at that meeting? PC: First meeting with Jack?


But has it annoyed you that these Havingness Processes were all grab-out- at-something, grab-out-at something, or something like that? PC: Uh – possibly. LRH: Well, has it or hasn't it?
Yeah. LRH: No. With Gernie.


Don't try to be obliging, just tell me. PC: Well, it was uh ... Well, sometimes things would be too far away, yes.
PC: Gernie. LRH: There a missed withhold there with Gernie? What would it be?


Hm-hm. LRH: And you sort of felt like you couldn't reach it. Well, answer this question: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
What didn't she find out about? PC: On me? Gee, I don't know.


PC: I don't think so. LRH: All right. I will check that.
That – well, the first I – when I first met her, I – I didn't – here was this big, fat woman here, you know? LRH: Oh, I see. PC: Yeah.


Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command? I'm not getting a direct response on that. PC: Oh, I don't think I have failed to.
And – but – had a lot of – pretty alive, you know? Gernie is pretty alive. LRH: Hm-hm.


I might have had difficulty answering them. LRH: All right. Let me check that . . .
PC: She – and she was interested in – in – in me because she had seen the production and liked it. And I didn't know who she was. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: The last uh – time I ran uh – Notice – Notice! That was a good one.... LRH: Yeah.
PC: She – very nice talking, and gets – I got some admiration there, and stuff like this. . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . you know, it was nice.


PC: Uh – the auditor had me notice things that were small and close, you see? And that helped, to me. LRH: I see.
LRH: Well, have you answered the auditing question there? Is there a missed withhold from Gernie? I haven't got a reaction on it.


All right. All right. Well, we got this . . .
PC: No, I – I – I can't think of any. LRH: All right. Now, let me test this What question again, huh?


PC: He started on a gradient scale, you know? LRH: All right. PC: It worked.
PC: Hm. LRH: All right. What about conning Jack?


TV DEMO: 19  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Now, just for fun . . . PC: Mm. LRH: . . . let's run a few more of these negative commands.
Now, we've still got a little tick here. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: All right. LRH: Okay? PC: I like them.
Did you meet Jack Campbell – coming back to one we had before . . . PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 20  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?


LRH: Squeeze the cans. All right. Thank you.
All right. Let me ask you once more. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That nail. LRH: Good.
I'm not getting a reaction on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Ill – Ill say it once more, because you're getting dives here.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That rug. LRH: Good.
PC: Hm. LRH: Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? No, that's clean.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That chair. LRH: Good.
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Now, is there a meeting between that first meeting with Gernie and what you were saying was the first meeting with Jack . . .


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: The top of that uh – shelf. LRH: Good. All right.
PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . when he bought the drinks? PC: The meeting with Gernie?


Squeeze the cans. All right. That's reducing the can swing . . .
Between that time? LRH: Yeah, well, is that – is . . . Yeah, yeah.


PC: Oh. Well . . . LRH: . . . as you could expect it to.
Is there a second meeting with Gernie before you met Jack? PC: Gee, I sure got it occluded if there is. There must – I . . .


What? PC: I uh – almost said I wasn't reaching you but I found out I was, so I didn't. LRH: All right.
LRH: Uh-huh. PC: . . . yeah, there must have been. There must have been.


Okay. You suppressed . . . PC: Mm.
LRH: Uh-huh. We got a . . . PC: Must have been.


LRH: All right. Okay. Now, let's now check out this Notice, hm?
LRH: The double action is on there. PC: Yeah. Funny, I've a little charge, too.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Notice that ashtray.
LRH: What goes on here? PC: Gee. I'm just trying to think of what it was.


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Okay. Notice that wood.
LRH: All right. Good. Good.


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Good. Notice that telephone.
PC: Yeah. You know, it must have been, because by the time I met Jack, Gernie and I were already good friends, you know, there . . . LRH: All right.


PC: Mm-hm. TV DEMO: 20  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Good. Notice that ceiling PC: Mm-hm.
All right. PC: Wonder what happened in there. LRH: Yeah.


LRH: Good. Notice that flower. PC: Yes.
All right. When might that have been? PC: March?


LRH: Good. Notice that necklace. PC: Mm-hm.
Well, yes. I first met her, right . . . God, 58.


LRH: Good. Notice that E-Meter. PC: Mm-hm.
What was that, Streetcar Named Desire? TV DEMO: 21  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm? PC: Yeah.


LRH: Good. Notice that lamp. PC: Yes.
Streetcar Named Desire. I first met her then, when – when she was – it must have been after Street – no, it must hare been sooner than Streetcar. Man, I've got so much confusion through this period, you know?


LRH: Good. Notice that button. PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: Interesting. PC: It's interesting. LRH: All right.


LRH: Good. Notice that pencil. PC: Yeah.
PC: Uh... LRH: Okay. Well, how can I help you out there?


LRH: Good. Notice that pencil. PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Well, I – I – I – I'm not sure what you – what to look for now. I kind of got lost off of that . . . LRH: All right.


LRH: Good. Thank you. Squeeze the cans.
Now, I asked you if there was a meeting . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... with Gernie, before you – from that – between that first meeting . . .


Well, it's possibly coming up just a little bit more. PC: Mm. LRH: Squeeze them again.
PC: Yeah. LRH: ... and when you met Jack. I was asking you . . .


All right. All right. I don't like the reaction of that . . .
PC: Yeah, there must have been several of them. LRH: ... when was that period? PC: Yeah.


PC: I'm ruining it. LRH: . . . process particularly. Hm?
I can't remember when I first met Gernie. LRH: That's it. PC: Do you follow?


PC: I'm ruining the demonstration. LRH: Are you worried about that? I'm not . . .
LRH: That's it. We haven't got the first meeting spotted, have we? PC: Yeah.


PC: A little bit, yeah. LRH: . . . worried about that. What are you worried about it for?
LRH: All right. Well, when might it have been? PC: I – it seems to me it was after Waiting for Godot.


Well, come on, what are you worried about it for? PC: Well, I just – I did. TV DEMO: 21  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
I – I – after I did that production. And that was in – sp – well, spring of 57. Yeah.


Don't worry about that. No, I'm quite interested here. I'm quite interested here.
LRH: We're getting a bit of reaction there. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


I'm looking for a bug on the subject of havingness. PC: Mm. LRH: I'm looking for a bug of some kind or another . . .
Is that all there is to that meeting now? PC: Yeah. You mean that meeting with Gernie?


PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . on the subject of havingness. Here's the way you check into one of those things, for your own information.
LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. Far as – yeah.


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command? I got a reaction that time.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Far as I know. LRH: All right.


PC: Did you? LRH: You ever fail to answer a Havingness command? I got a reaction that time.
What didn't appear there? PC: Well, Jack didn't. LRH: All right.


PC: Hm. Um – I did once, but I answered it later, because I told him. LRH: All right.
Okay. Did you particularly want him to appear on that scene? PC: No, I didn't even know about him existing, you see, at that – at that point, really.


Okay. PC: Yeah. LRH: Thank you.
LRH: Oh, you didn't know he existed at all? PC: No. LRH: All right.


Let me check that on the meter. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
Very good. All right. And who didn't find out about that first meeting?


All right. You got a rather heavily swinging needle here. I'll have to check it again.
I got a reaction. PC: Oh, the – yeah, the – the people that ran the American Students and Artists Center didn't find out about that. LRH: Oh, yeah.


Okay? PC: All right. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
All right. Very good. PC: 'Cause they were supporting me, they were behind me, and it was kind of – I don't know.


All right. That's clean. PC: Yeah.
LRH: Well? PC: I was – l was getting support from other people too. Confused.


I usually try. I – I – I like that, you see? I like the Havingness Processes.
I was, you know, very confused there. LRH: Well, all right. Now we're getting onto something interesting While they were supporting you, were you looking for support from other people?


LRH: An right. PC: And uh . . . I don't think I've failed to answer.
PC: Yeah, for my – well, not really. But I felt kind of guilty about – people would off – or something. You know, I'd – I'd get admiration and stuff like this.


LRH: Okay. Now, have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? PC: I don't think so.
I was becoming an independent figure, you see? LRH: I see. PC: Kind of like this.


LRH: Ouhh, man, we've got a nice fall here. PC: It scares me though to think about it. LRH: Yes.
LRH: I see. PC: In a sense. LRH: All right.


We've got a nice fall here. PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: I'll ask that again.
Good enough. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check this over now.


Have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? There's something here. PC: Hm.
Another What question here incidental, just to be checked. TV DEMO: 23  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie?


LRH: That was . . . PC: Let's see now. LRH: Well, what was that?
Now there's a double tick on these meetings with Gernie. PC: They're certainly occluded, in through here. LRH: There it is.


PC: Hm. LRH: What's that? What are you thinking about right there?
PC: There's a year . . . LRH: There it is. PC: See, there's a year going through there . . .


What's that? PC: Oh – oh, by-y-y-y golly, I got sidetracked there. LRH: What were you thinking about?
LRH: All right. PC: . . . about that. LRH: Hm.


You say you got sidetracked, but what did you think about at that point? PC: Yeah. LRH: Come on.
PC: You know. LRH: I'm going to put that down as a . . . PC: Boy, I sure had trouble with Gernie later on, so there must be – there must be something in there.


That's it. PC: I´m sure I must have. LRH: Must have what?
LRH: Yeah? You do something to her? PC: Yeah.


PC: Failed . . . Oh. . . LRH: Yeah, go on.
LRH: What? PC: Oh – I – later on there, I fought with her, you know? LRH: All right.


Have you . . . PC: And... LRH: ... ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc?
PC: Fought with her . . . LRH: Did you do something to her specifically? We got a tick.


There's something in this. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah. I – yeah, one time she wanted to – she wanted to come and have supper with me. I told her no, I was going to go with some other people.


What is it? PC: Well, I'm sure I did. you found it. LRH: All right.
LRH: Hm-km. PC: I – I – you know, kind of pushed her away. LRH: You what?


Thank you. I will check it. PC: Yeah.
PC: I kind of repulsed her. LRH: All right. PC: Repulsed her and . . .


LRH: Have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? PC: Yeah, I must have. LRH: That's latent now.
TV DEMO: 24  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Well, let me ask this question: What about refusing Gernie? No, that isn't live. It isn't quite right.


PC: Yeah. Well, I'm sure I did. LRH: You're sure you did.
What would you do to Gernie? You repulsed her, then. PC: That time.


TV DEMO: 23  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Yeah. LRH: Thank you. All right.
Yeah. LRH: Well, when was that? PC: Was quite a bit later.


Let me ask this question: What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? PC: Goodness' sakes. Oh, it was a “Point out.” LRH: Hm?
This – I was back . . . LRH: Well, when was it? PC: Nineteen – Jesus – Sixty.


PC: It was “Point out something,” l think . . LRH: Hm-hm. All right.
Spring of 60. LRH: All right. Very good.


PC: . . . on someone. LRH: Thank you. Let me check that.
PC: March of 60. LRH: Is that all there is to it? PC: Well, there's other stuff during that incident.


PC: All right. LRH: What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? Well, I got . . .
She was producing; I was directing a production there. LRH: Ah. You were working with her.


PC: It must have been “Point out something.” LRH: I get a wobbly needle on that. What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? I've got a reaction on that still.
PC: Yeah, working together. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: Long time.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me ask you this question . . .
LRH: Good. All right. And what didn't appear there?


PC: I uh – it was the thirty-six ones, I think. LRH: Hm? PC: You know, the thirty-six Presessions.
PC: In that particular instance there of repulsing her? Well, some friendliness on my part didn't appear. LRH: All right.


LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah. That was what it was.
Very good. And who didn't find out about it? PC: Well, Gernie didn't, really.


Hm? LRH: Hm-hm. All right.
LRH: Okay. Thank you. PC: Yeah.


Let me check that again. What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? That's still live.
LRH: Let me ask you a couple of just leading questions here, could I? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is there any affair – is there any affair with Gernie?


PC: Still. LRH: What are you thinking about when you hit that? PC: Well, it – it was one where you have a can between. “Point out something.” LRH: Mm-hm.
Is there any refusal to have an affair with Gernie? PC: Yeah. Not – do you mean love affair?


PC: That was the one. LRH: All right. Let me ask you this question.
Or . . . LRH: Yeah, I don't care. PC: Yeah.


TV DEMO: 24 CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm. LRH: What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? PC: I think it was my son.
It was never – it was – it was neither way, you know? It was – we got together one time and – on this American Theatre Association thing, and she said, “Fred,” she said, “I'd help you, but I want something out of it.”  TV DEMO: 25 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And I – at that time I – I – I – I wondered – I had the consideration that, well, people should help me because they should help me, you know?


I don't know. LRH: All right. PC: Seems like it must have been.
Not because they want something out of me. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: You know ?


LRH: There's a steep fall here. PC: Well, it must have been him. you know, undoubtedly. LRH: Why?
Very . . . LRH: All right. We're on the double-tick line.


Why undoubtedly? You don't remember this . . . PC: Because that's the one I was thinking of.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Go on. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Oh, all right. All right. I´ll check that.
And that – that I deserve to be helped. You know? LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Mm. LRH: What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? All right, that's still dirty.
PC: I – I – and I don't – I don't need to give anything in return. LRH: Ah. PC: Except my – my “contribution of art to the world, “you know?


PC: Still dirty. LRH: Not dirty, by the way, just falling PC: Oh. LRH: It still reacts, however.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Or something like that – some jazz like that. I'm important enough, and I´m – you know, I should be helped and not be bothered about things like this, and what have you.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Let me ask you the question again. Now what pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on?
I – I kind of left her with a maybe on that whole thing. LRH: What did she mean by, she expected something out of it? What do you think she meant?


PC: I guess that was Carl. Probably. LRH: Who?
PC: Well, she – she expected to direct a play now and then, when she wanted to, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . enter in artistically into the thing And I wasn't interested in letting her do this.


PC: Carl. LRH: Carl. PC: Hm-hm.
I didn't consider her capable at the time of . . . LRH: Did she ever find out about this? PC: She never found out about that, no.


LRH: All right. Okay. PC: Hm-hm.
LRH: Oh. Is there a consistent withhold here on the subject of her capability? PC: There certainly is, yeah.


LRH: All right. Thank you. Let me check that.
Certainly is. Certainly is. All through – all through our relationship.


What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? All right. That's clean.
Kind of culminating up into producing this play . . . LRH: Hm. PC: ... together.


PC: No kidding It was Carl. Hm! TV DEMO: 25 CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
TV DEMO: 26 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: I found out, in working together, that she was very capable. LRH: Oh, I see.


All right. PC: That's true, too. LRH: It's true?
PC: Before that – you know. LRH: You had an opinion through that period? PC: Yeah.


PC: Yeah. That's the one. LRH: Hm?
Yeah. LRH: All right. She didn't find out about this at any time?


All right. Very good. All right.
PC: No. LRH: Did Jack ever find out about this? PC: No.


Squeeze the cans. All right. Now, let me ask something here out of my just out of curiosity here.
LRH: Might Jack have found out about this when he was auditing you? PC: Yeah, he might have, if he'd . . . LRH: All right.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You were sort of waiting for the meter to tell you whether that was right or wrong. What was this all about?
PC: ... asked me. LRH: Is there anything else about Gernie that Jack might have found out about? That's it.


Didn't you really remember that yourself? PC: Not until I told it to you. LRH: Oh, yeah.
PC: I – I had a feeling she was interested in me as a man, you see, sexually. LRH: I see. PC: I couldn't – you know.


PC: Not Carl. LRH: All right. PC: I knew there was someone, and the thirty-six Presessions and then this thing between the cans.
I wouldn't want Jack to know that, that I kind of got the idea from her. Not through any really terribly overt – kind of covertly, I mean. LRH: I see.


LRH: All right. You do remember – you do remember doing this? PC: Yes.
PC: And I wouldn't want Jack to know about that. LRH: All right. All right.


LRH: Yeah. All right. PC: Definitely.
Now let me disentangle . . . PC: Yes. LRH: ... all of this a little bit here.


LRH: Good. All right. Let me check this once more to make sure we get out from underneath the thing PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Right. LRH: And let me ask that question again, check it on the meter. PC: Hm-hm.


LRH: All right. What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? I get nothing on that now.
LRH: Might Jack have found out something about you and Gernie when he was auditing you? Getting a little action on this. PC: Seems to be something else.


PC: Mm, it was Carl. LRH: All right. Okay.
LRH: It's what something else? TV DEMO: 27  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: He might have found something else out – something else about me and Gernie, beside what I said. LRH: Something else . . .


Now let's see what luck we have here. PC: All right. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah. LRH: ... than this capability thing PC: Yeah. LRH: Was there anything else to find out?


Squeeze the cans. All right. Thank you.
Got a reaction. PC: I didn't like her! LRH: All right.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: That hanger. TV DEMO: 26  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Good.
All right. PC: I didn't like her. LRH: Good.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: Uh – the couch. LRH: Good.
Well, might he have practically blown your head off if he'd fount out about your opinions with Gernie? What do you think? Something going on here.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: Uh – that uh – connecting thing. LRH: Good.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. PC: Yeah.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: I could reach that camera. LRH: Good.
I – I – I don't know – I – my considerations at the time or my considerations now? LRH: Your considerations at the time. PC: At the time.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: The camera holder. LRH: All right.
Well, you know, I – he might have – he might not have liked me, or something like that. But that's the missed withhold. LRH: All right.


Thank you. Okay. Squeeze the cans.
Very good. All right. Let me check this lineup now.


PC: Did I do it right? LRH: Put those backs of your hands on the table here. PC: Hm-hm.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay? What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: Now put the backs of your hands – now, put your hands up to where I can get them here because I don't want to cover up the dial. PC: All right. There's my fingers.
Got a reaction. PC: Hm. LRH: Instant reaction.


LRH: All right. Now just hold them relaxedly. PC: Mm.
PC: Hm. LRH: But it's not now the dirty needle reaction. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Man, there's certainly very little drop here, let me tell you, man. All right. Now, I'll tell you something PC: Hm-hm.
I mean, there are some other times when I conned him, kind of LRH: Oh, just give me a rapid rundown. What's the relationship here? PC: Well, I – I – I got some books from him and never paid him for the books.


LRH: I'll tell you something Is there something that you consistently want that you can't have? PC: Sure. LRH: Well, what is it?
LRH: All right. Good. Thank you.


PC: Uh – a lot of motion. LRH: Hm? A lot of . . .
Any other one? PC: Oh, I – I – I was going to trade twenty-five hours of auditing with him. TV DEMO: 28  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-m.


PC: Motion. LRH: A lot of motion. PC: Mm-hm.
PC: That's – that was a con, because he was a better auditor than I was. LRH: All right. Okay.


TV DEMO: 27  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: And you don't think you can have this? PC: Uh-uh. LRH: Well, all right.
PC: Actually I got twelve and a half. LRH: Good. Good.


All right. Okay. I get a little reaction on this.
PC: Uh... LRH: Any others? PC: Can't think of any right now.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Is there anything else you consistently want that you can't have?
LRH: All right. What? PC: No, it's a motivator.


PC: No, I don't think so. LRH: All right. PC: Well, I'd like to be a – a real excellent auditor.
LRH: Well, that's all right. What's the motivator? Perfectly all right with me.


LRH: All right. PC: That I would like. But, you know, that – that I can come to in my own slow way.
PC: Yeah. Well, there's – there was – there was some confusion with him about when I was on the course – when he came on the ACC over here. That's . . .


LRH: All right. Now, let me ask you this question again just to check it on the meter. Okay?
LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . when he was a student on an ACC. He and Vincent came over here.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Is there anything you consistently want that you can't have? No, that's quiet now.
And – well, no, there – th-th-th-th-there's an overt in there. Yeah. LRH: Yeah, that's what I was going to just ask for, but you saved me the trouble.


PC: Yeah. LRH: It's sensitivity. PC: Just those two things.
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. What's the overt?


LRH: All right. I'll check it again. Is there anything you consistently want that you can't have?
PC: There's an overt in there. He left Mario and myself to teach the course there. Mm?


No, that's clean. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: All right.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And we were supposed to work together in teaching the course. LRH: Hm-hm.


Very good. Okay, honey. Now, we're not going to fool with this anymore . . .
PC: But Mario went on a concert tour, didn't come back. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: See?


PC: Mm. LRH: ... as a Havingness Process. But I'm going to recommend that we just do a standard job now of trying to find a Havingness Process on you.
And he was supposed to come back in a week, didn't come back. LRH: Hm. PC: . . . at all, you know.


Okay? PC: All right. LRH: Because I've taken a little bit of charge off this thing.
But I went ahead and taught the course, myself LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 29  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And spent the time blaming Jack, kind of, for not – you know, for Mario – to let Mario – Jack, everybody else, whereby . . . The overt was – golly, it's kind of – there's something to do with holding down the whole thing by myself . . .


And I've now got – whether we've got havingness or not – I've got now a rather quiet needle. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: This thing was going slamity-slam before.
LRH: Hm. PC: . . . and proving to them that they were no good, or something like this. you know, I don't know. LRH: All right.


TV DEMO: 28  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: I'm not surprised. LRH: Okay? PC: Yes.
All right. PC: Something like that. LRH: Good enough.


LRH: All right. Let me check these What questions now. PC: All right.
Thank you. All right, let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: All right? PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.
All right. I don't know if that was a reaction or not, I'll check it again. PC: Hm.


What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right. We're just doing a check on this.
LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got some kind of a reaction. Let's get the 1B checked here.


It's just – this thing is – there's something about this. What about it? PC: Well, I just think it's silly.
PC: All right. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? All right, let me check it again.


LRH: All right. Okay. PC: You know, what an effect!
What about these meetings with Gernie? That is clean. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Thank you. Let me check that again. PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: All right. Now let me check the first one again. What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right. Thank you.
Let me check it again. What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got a reaction on that.


That's still a little bit warm. PC: Is it? LRH: Mm-hm.
PC: Yeah. LRH: It's much quieter. PC: Yeah.


All right, honey. PC: For goodness' sakes. LRH: Now, here's the next one.
LRH: Everything is smoothing out. There is something else here. Is that the first meeting you had with Jack Campbell?


What about you acting rowdy? All right. That's an active question.
PC: Yeah! LRH: Was it? PC: Yeah!


Do you care to say anything there particularly? PC: No. LRH: All right.
LRH: All right. PC: Far as I know. LRH: Now, did you and Gernie talk about Jack Campbell?


Thank you, honey. Well, what about withdrawing from people? Let me check that again.
All right. There's no reaction there. TV DEMO: 30  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm-m.


PC: All right. LRH: What about withdrawing from people? All right.
LRH: Is there any other con there that you might have skipped? Did you ever borrow money from him, or . . . PC: Yeah.


That's . . . PC: That one's all right. LRH: Apparently nothing on it very much.
Yeah. LRH: . . . never paid it back? You so far have just mentioned course fees, and so forth.


PC: Yeah. I think I undid that one real good. TV DEMO: 29  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: By the way, what overt was found that caused that to be asked as a What question?
Did you ever borrow money and not pay it back? PC: I think I paid all the money back I borrowed from him. LRH: I get no reaction on it.


PC: Santa Maria! LRH: What overt was found? This is the question: What about withdrawing from people?
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Did you ever take a girl away from him?


I want to know what overt was found that led to that question being asked. PC: I haven't the faintest idea at this point. LRH: What might it have – I get a reaction here.
PC: No. LRH: Did you ever steal anything off of him? PC: No.


PC: Yeah, because I'm supposed to know. I mean, I . . . LRH: Well, do you remember any overt?
LRH: All right. Did you ever take a fee while you were teaching there and didn't pay it back, or something like that? PC: No.


PC: No, I don't remember. LRH: Did you ever have an overt on this? PC: Oh, yeah, I must have.
No. LRH: Huh? PC: No.


LRH: You must have, but did you? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
Huh. LRH: What do you mean? PC: Oh, yeah!


PC: Sure. LRH: Did you ever have an overt on this? PC: Mm, yeah.
LRH: What? PC: Yeah, I just remembered an overt I got against him . . . LRH: Yeah, all right.


But I can't remember it. LRH: All right. Thank you.
PC: . . . on that. LRH: What is it? PC: While I was there, teaching – you know, teaching the course, holding things down, his – I'd use his office, you know, I mean, his office there.


Thank you. All right. All right.
LRH: Yeah, yeah. PC: And he said, well, I wasn't supposed to go in the bottom left-hand drawer of his desk. LRH: Right.


Nothing wrong with this. PC: Yeah, I – I had a lot of them, really. LRH: You went over a lot of them with the auditor?
TV DEMO: 31  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I'm not supposed to touch that bottom left-hand drawer. LRH: Okay. PC: And so I went in the bottom – so I did go in the bottom left-hand drawer . . .


PC: Yeah. LRH: Mm. What was the type of overt?
LRH: All right. PC: . . . and rummaged around there a bit, and found some dirty pictures down there. LRH: Okay.


PC: God... LRH: Go on, what was the type of overt? PC: Oh, withdrawing my support and stuff like that.
PC: And never told him about that. Never told him about it. LRH: Okay.


LRH: Hm? PC: Withdrawing my support and uh . . . Gosh, really, I don't really remember.
Did he audit you after that? PC: Yeah. Oh, yeah.


LRH: Well, is that so? All right. PC: Yes, sir.
LRH: All right. Thank you. Thank you.


TV DEMO: 30  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Thank you. PC: Yes, sir. LRH: Thank you.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Good enough. Now let me check this question again.


PC: You're welcome. LRH: All right. PC: But it seemed terrible at the time, I'm sure.
What about conning Jack Campbell? Well, this is getting to look much cleaner. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Okay, honey.
LRH: All right. What about conning Jack Campbell? I am not now getting an instant read..


All right, we've got “What about picking up a body?” PC: That's what I said at the time. LRH: All right. Very good.
PC: Hm. LRH: . . . but it's a little bit before, and it's a little bit after. PC: Yeah.


I'll check that on the meter again. What about picking up a body? Okay.
Well, there's a lot of – must be a lot of – several other things I have done to him, you know? LRH: Well, think of any offhand? PC: Hm, hm, hm.


PC: I didn't like that one. LRH: What about putting a body in storage? PC: Pretty terrible, huh ?
LRH: What's that? PC: Oh, well, I – yeah. I conned him there.


LRH: Hm? PC: Pretty terrible, huh? LRH: Oh, pretty grim.
LRH: What? PC: I took the test, my final exam paper . . . LRH: Yeah.


Well, what about it? PC: Yeah! Just think it used to be a good way to put them in, you know?
PC: . . . from the HPA, home, and did it at home . . . LRH: Oh, I see. PC: . . . in a sense.


LRH: All right. PC: Save them. LRH: Thank you.
That's sort of a con. Well, yeah, because I – I – I went home and I – actually, when I took this paper home, I thought it was a joke about learning the Axioms. I – I – you know, learning, memorizing all those Axioms.


PC: No problem with me right now. LRH: All right. All right, here's one I find.
That was silly. TV DEMO: 32  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And when I – I came – I brought it back.


I'm not going to go over all these. PC: I think Mary Sue had a list of the whole bunch on the front of it. LRH: On the front of something here, huh?
I copied them out of the book, you know. LRH: Hm. PC: Brought them back, you know, I brought them back.


PC: On the very first page. LRH: Hm? PC: Right on the very first page there.
And he looked at it, and he checked it over, with me there, and he saw that everything was perfect in it. LRH: Hm-m. PC: You know?


Yes! TV DEMO: 31  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right. I'll check a couple of more of these.
And he looked at me kind of funny, like “Well, you got it right.” LRH: Hm. PC: I conned him there, because I realized when he looked at me funny that I – it wasn't a joke. I should have memorized those Axioms.


What about invalidating a teacher? Anything you'd care to say? PC: Nm.
LRH: Oh, I get you. PC: And I – I hadn't. LRH: All right.


Well, I only did it a couple of times. LRH: All right. Good.
PC: And – and at that moment I knew that – really that – that I hadn't. You know, I mean, I should have, or something, you know ? LRH: Hm-hm, yeah.


Now I'll ask that again. What about invalidating a teacher? I'm not going to check any more: They're all hot, every one of them.
PC: And I conned him there. LRH: Okay. PC: Yeah.


PC: Good heavens. LRH: All right, honey. Well arrange to get something flattened on here.
LRH: We got it taped now. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.


Okay? PC: Except me. LRH: What about except you?
Let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? This looks fairly clean.


PC: We'll not flatten me. LRH: Horrible remark. PC: I know.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: I'll check it just one more time. What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: All right, honey. You don't want to be flattened, huh? PC: Uh-uh.
I haven't got anything on it. PC: Hm. LRH: That's clean.


LRH: That's a bad one, huh? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
PC: That was a – that was a – actually, that was the big one there. I mean, that – that one there. LRH: Yeah.


All right. Now, the only thing I'm going to put down here is “1. Find this pc's Hav Process and use it.” And “2.
That cleaned it. All right. PC: Funny, because I told you about that once, but it wasn't – it wasn't as precise.


Flatten all What questions on list.” And “3. Withdraw both former auditors from auditing.” There we are. PC: But I had six of them.
TV DEMO: 33  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: It wasn't “who missed the withhold,” was it? PC: Yeah. Yeah.


LRH: Hm? PC: I had six of them! LRH: Good.
LRH: Yeah. Now, all right. Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?


It's just the last two. Just the last two. Okay?
PC: Nope. LRH: All right. Are you sure of that?


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Because when I tell somebody to get something done, then I expect it to get done. PC: Yes, sir.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking? PC: Now about the double tick?


LRH: I found a gross auditing error here in auditing a pc without a Havingness Process. Now, I try not to invalidate your auditors: I'm not interested in invalidating them or not. All I'm interested in is, one day I walk out in the hall and I see a girl I like, called Smokey, and she is looking like she has just been dragged in by the cat, Sambo.
Is that off ? LRH: I knew there was – I can't find it. PC: Yeah.


TV DEMO: 32  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Didn’t, though? LRH: Yes. And so I says, “Well now, we'll check into this.” So I said, “Well, the person has had a lot of What questions run, and we'll get these checked over.” They were announced to me as being clear and clean and null: they're all hotter than a pistol.
LRH: It started disappearing when we cleaned up Gernie. PC: Hm. Hm.


PC: Mm. LRH: Great? Furthermore, they're not very intelligent What questions.
LRH: And I haven't seen it. PC: Hm? LRH: But you ask about it there.


But that's all right; that's beside the point. PC: I had fun with some of them. LRH: Sure, I know you did.
There's . . . PC: Hm. LRH: ... there's a wide motion, there's a wider motion.


But those things can be cleaned. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Okay?
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: It's about so long, but it isn't the tick I had in the first place. PC: Hm.


PC: All right. LRH: So I made up my mind that the cycle of action which I began . . . PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: I've got a tick here of some kind or another. PC: Hm. LRH: It's not a tick.


LRH: . . . on straightening you up would be finished. I found two gross auditing errors here: one of them is auditing a pc without a Hav Process, and the other one is not flattening the questions. That was all I was looking for.
I've got a – a stop and a sweep. PC: Yeah. LRH: But I was looking for a dirty little tick-tick.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. PC: I think I just fool people, you know?
PC: Yeah. LRH: And it seems to have dived for cover at the moment. PC: Hm.


LRH: Hm? PC: I think I do fool people. You know, I don't usually – you know, it takes a lot to run me down.
LRH: There – no, there it is again. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 34  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Why?


LRH: All right, honey. As far as fooling people is concerned, you can't fool a meter. PC: Oh, I didn't try to.
What are you thinking of, as you think of that? PC: I don't know. That's the funny thing, you see?


LRH: I know you don't. PC: Hm. LRH: No, it's just technical.
I kind of look at something. I kind of look at an area of the bank. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 33  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: What are you trying to do, take responsibility for this? Perfectly all right with me if you do.
PC: You know, or something, or a piece of a ridge there, or something like that. LRH: Well, that's all right. PC: You know ?


PC: Oh, of course! LRH: All right. Go ahead and take responsibility for it.
And I get it there . . . LRH: It's all right. It's all right.


PC: All right. LRH: That's all right. PC: That's better.
Okay. PC: I can bring it back by sweeping, you know? Scanning across.


LRH: All right. Now, have I missed a withhold on you? Thank you.
LRH: Well, try it – to bring it back. PC: 1b bring it back? It's – I don't know.


That's clear. PC: I know. LRH: What were you thinking about?
LRH: Yeah. A little bit. Little bit.


PC: Naturally it's clear! LRH: Huh? PC: Naturally it's clear.
PC: Yeah, there's a little button there, it's – push – I don't know. LRH: All right. There it is.


LRH: All right. Now, is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this? PC: No.
PC: Creeps up on me. I was just trying there . . . LRH: All right.


LRH: Hm? PC: Not a thing LRH: Anything you care to ask or say before I end it? PC: Well, just say “thank you,” of course.
But do you think we've attained anything there, on that? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


LRH: All right, honey. Now, I got a little dirty – instant dirty needle there. PC: Well – uh – well, that's my secret.
PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Okay.


LRH: What's your secret? PC: You see, I have hot flushes sometimes. LRH: All right.
LRH: Okay. Now, let's see what we've got here. Okay?


Okay. PC: Age, you know. LRH: Yeah.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me any half-truth? What's the half-truth?


Yeah. PC: Mm. LRH: Yeah.
That's it. PC: Oh, about writing those things for Robin, maybe. That's what I thought of . . .


PC: So it – it gets a little dirty needle at times . . . TV DEMO: 34  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right, honey. PC: . . . on that one thing.
LRH: All right. All right. PC: ... right there.


LRH: Okay. Let me ask this again. Is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this checkover?
LRH: Thank you. I'll check it on the meter. Have you told me any half-truth?


PC: No. Don't think so. LRH: All right.
Got it. Check, bang It reacts. PC: Hm-hm.


Think of anything else? Little something there? PC: Uh – well, I appreciate your finding uh – that the havingness is out, because I do think l need it.
Half-truths. Gee, I don't know. LRH: Hm?


LRH: Mm-hm. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Hm, all right.
TV DEMO: 35  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I don't know what it Was. LRH: Think of anything at all? What's that?


All right. Good enough. All right.
PC: Oh, well, there must be some other things with Jack, I think. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: You know.


I'm going to check this one question on the meter here. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this checkover?
LRH: All right. PC: I was . . . LRH: You weren't satisfied that the What question was clean?


Thank you. That is clear. PC: Okay.
PC: Yeah, I was satisfied. LRH: Yeah. PC: There was probably other things on the chain there along some – you know, little ones . . .


LRH: All right, honey. Thank you very much. PC: All right.
LRH: All right. PC: ... like that, but not enough to . . . LRH: Okay.


Thank you. LRH: Put down the cans. You can go back downstairs and give the Instructor this.
PC: Hm. LRH: Thank you. I'll check the auditing question.


PC: All right. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yes.
Have you told me any half-truth? Clean. Untruth?


LRH: Okay.
What's the untruth? PC: Untruth. LRH: That's it.
 
Untruth. PC: About Gernie? I don't know.
 
LRH: Think of an untruth? PC: Well, she didn't actually – I don't think she really ever really insinuated that she was interested in me, sexually. LRH: Ah.
 
PC: You know? I – it – I think it was mainly my own ideas or something. You know, I mean, I kind of switched things around or something.
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Have you told me any untruth?
 
Got a reaction. PC: Hm. Huh, I don't know what it is.
 
Untruth. LRH: There's something PC: I don't know what it is. TV DEMO: 36  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Something there.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. I'll ask the question again.
 
PC: Yeah. Yeah. LRH: Your answer is you don't know what it is?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Thank you.
 
PC: I- I got an idea. LRH: What is it? PC: Something about beginning rudiments.
 
LRH: Did you think one of them was still hot? PC: Maybe I had kind of a suspicion or something. I wasn't sure.
 
LRH: Oh, yeah? PC: Well, it could of – yeah, well, kind of a – of a missed withhold or something, you know? LRH: All right.
 
All right. PC: I was – I was – when you said – when you asked about a present time problem, I had a tiny present time problem that I haven't been able to get to sleep too well . . . LRH: Yeah.
 
PC: ... over the last week or so. LRH: Yeah. PC: And I thought that it might show up.
 
And then it didn't show up. And I thought it might show up, and uh – but it didn't show up. LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: And so I thought maybe that was something wrong there. LRH: All right. Is there an untruth?
 
Was any of that an untruth? PC: No, no, there wasn't an untruth on that. LRH: Well, was it an untruth?
 
Did you tell me that it . . . ? PC: An untruth, huh? LRH: Thinking of something there.
 
TV DEMO: 37  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Well, yeah. If I said I had a present time problem and it didn't react on the meter, then it would be an untruth. LRH: Is that right?
 
PC: Yes. LRH: Is that what occurred? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: You're not sure? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that your answer?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Very good.
 
I will check that. All right. Have you told me an untruth?
 
I get a reaction. Let me check it again . . . PC: Hm.
 
LRH: ... because you got a pretty dirty needle. PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me an untruth?
 
PC: Gee, I don't know what it is. LRH: This is very equivocal. PC: Yeah?
 
LRH: Do you have a guilty conscience about telling untruths or something of the sort here? This is not getting the same reaction . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: . . . constantly at all. PC: I – I – I have a guilty conscience. It's just, you know, a general one-has-a-guilty- conscience guilty conscience, you know?
 
LRH: Well, does that upset you that I asked you if you've told an untruth? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that what this is falling on?
 
PC: Yeah, maybe. LRH: Well, is it or isn't it? PC: Yeah, I didn't expect it to fall.
 
TV DEMO: 38  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Oh, all right. Okay. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Let me check it again. Have you told me an untruth?
 
Now, I still get a reaction on this. That's it. PC: Oh.
 
About my friend with the letter? LRH: All right. PC: My friend ?
 
LRH: Well, what's the untruth there? That's it. PC: Well, I'm not – I'm not absolutely positive I wrote it to the right address.
 
Huh? Have to go back, I have to check my – my address book . . . LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: . . . to make sure, because I just – I wrote the address out, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . after having remembered it.
 
And I'm not – I have to check my address book. LRH: All right. Thank you.
 
Is there an untruth in that anyplace? PC: Well, I said that . . . LRH: What was the untruth?
 
PC: Hm. LRH: That's it. PC: Well, that he – that I'm sure – well, that I'm sure that he would have – would have told me if he had moved.
 
LRH: Oh, I see. PC: You know. LRH: All right.
 
PC: And maybe he wouldn't have. I'm not sure that he would have told me that he moved. LRH: All right.
 
Very good. PC: Right. LRH: Very good.
 
Have you told me an untruth? All right. That's clean.
 
Or said something only to impress me? I'll check that again. Have you said something only to impress me?
 
Have you said something only to impress me? I haven't got any reaction on that. Your needle is banging around here . . .
 
TV DEMO: 39  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Oh. LRH: . . . so I have to check it a little bit. Would you care to answer it?
 
PC: I was thinking maybe that this overt on Robin I said, but it wasn't only to impress you. No, it wasn't. LRH: All right.
 
Good. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check it again.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? Now I am getting a kick on this.
 
PC: Oh, it wasn't only to impress you, but maybe I – it was a little bit to impress you. This overt on Robin, about writing him notes and stuff . . . LRH: All right.
 
PC: . . . like that. LRH: Okay. Thank you.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? That's clean.
 
Or tried to damage anyone in this session? Thank you. That's clean.
 
Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Now what's the ping on that? PC: I was looking for that – that double tick.
 
LRH: Oh! PC: You know? LRH: All right.
 
All right. PC: Looking for the double tick that I had. LRH: Very good.
 
All right. I'll check that. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E- Meter?
 
I get a little tick on it still. PC: Well, I implied that I could influence, I suppose, to a certain extent, if I could “push the button.” I said I could “push the button” there and get a double tick. LRH: Oh, yeah.
 
PC: You know, and that – if that was true, then I could push the button any time and get a double tick. LRH: Yeah. PC: Sort of push the button.
 
TV DEMO: 40  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right. PC: That wasn't true, you know. LRH: Okay.
 
All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Very improbable.
 
I will check it one more time. PC: Oh, I don't want it to read when – when I can't find anything to – to – for it to read on. LRH: Oh, I see.
 
PC: You see? LRH: All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter?
 
I haven't got a reading here . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... but subject seems to be kind of mucky.
 
PC: Well, I've kind of held my breath at times, hoping that I wouldn't get any read, or something on that. Read a body read or – I mean, it was silly, you know? I was sort of holding my breath or holding my body still and holding my hands still to make sure that the E-Meter doesn't read.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Good.
 
All right. PC: Hm. LRH: Okay.
 
Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Well, this is a bzz-bzz... PC: Hm-hm.
 
LRH: ... sort of question. It isn't reacting very hard, but there's something there. Feel you gave me a lose by making – I was trying to clean up this double tick, or . . .
 
PC: Something to do with that. No, not so much. LRH: ... or something like that?
 
Any feeling like that at all? PC: Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe – maybe I thought it at the moment when I said “What happened to the double tick?” LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: And I thought, well, the double tick should have gone by now, you see? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: It cleared up with Gernie, then that was the end of the double tick.
 
TV DEMO: 41  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: Then it came back. LRH: Hm.
 
PC: And in a sense I felt I influenced the E-Meter, or something, to bring it back on, you know, like that. LRH: Hm. All right.
 
Okay. Now let me check this question again. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? That is clean. All right.
 
Have you failed to answer any question or command I have given you in this session? Thank you. That's clean.
 
Have you withheld anything from me? It's a trifle latent . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: ... but what is it? PC: I was thinking there was one just – there was one question that I may have failed to answer . . . LRH: What was that?
 
PC: ... much earlier, and I'm surprised it didn't react. I was thinking there was one, and it should have reacted. LRH: Oh, all right.
 
PC: Or something like that. LRH: All right, what question was it? PC: The one about “What about those meetings in between?” I never did find a meeting in between . . .
 
LRH: Oh, all right. PC: ...you see, those two. LRH: Thank you.
 
I'm sorry I asked the double question then. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? I got a reaction.
 
PC: I don't understand what you meant by double question. Or . . . LRH: I ask you a question, you answer it and I ask you another question.
 
I was just apologizing  TV DEMO: 42  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: When was that? 1. . . LRH: Just a moment ago. PC: Hm.
 
LRH: All right. Let me check this . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: ... again. Hm? Have you withheld anything from me?
 
Well, this – this is greasy. This hasn't anything to do with it. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? There is not an instant read on this. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Withheld? Well, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Withheld? Yes, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Lot of things I'd like to talk to you about.
 
I – you know . . . LRH: Well, all right. Now, get the question here, now.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me?
 
All right. It looks much cleaner. PC: Yeah.
 
There's a lot of things I – I don't tell you or talk about, or something like that. you know, sometimes I . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...I've withheld – I've withheld communicating to you how pleased I am to be on the course, and how – how – how . . .
 
LRH: All right. PC: ... and how many gains I have got and how tremendous I think it is. That's all.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know? LRH: Very good.
 
PC: But it's not an overt act. I'm trying to give overt acts that I've done and I've withheld, you know, or something like that. LRH: Oh, I see.
 
All right. Have you withheld anything from me? There's a slight needle change . . .
 
TV DEMO: 43  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Uh-huh. LRH: ... right there on the end of that. PC: Uh...
 
LRH: There it is. There it is. PC: Yeah.
 
All right. All right. This is very funny.
 
I – I got myself in the front – right at the front of the class . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... this week, under the assumption I was no longer an old – a new student – that I'm an old student.
 
Last week Herbie caught me in the third row from the back, in the first lecture, and I – here you know I – I kind of snuck up to the third row that first day . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ...you know.
 
He told me I could sit in back, you know . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... new student, next time.
 
Well, yesterday I got in the second row from the front . . . LRH: Uh-huh. PC: ... and no one caught me at it.
 
If – if now, as – a little games condition thing there, and I was just seeing if – if the second week, if you're still a new student, and – and if I wouldn't be (a) I wouldn't get caught at it or (b) I would – could argue my way out that I was a new student. LRH: All right. PC: And – or something like that.
 
Anyway, it's silly LRH: All right. Thank you. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? A halt as it goes, as it comes back up.
 
PC: Hm. LRH: There. PC: Hm.
 
LRH: There. What are you thinking about? PC: Well, I . . .
 
LRH: There. TV DEMO: 44  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I had an argument with – a little argument with Robin. LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: ... about – after I took over the post. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And I . . . oh, I don't know, I didn't tell you about it.
 
LRH: All right. Very good. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Okay? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that it?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me check this question on the meter.
 
Have you withheld anything from me? It's just a little roughness. Pretty clean.
 
Just a little roughness. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Hardly detectable.
 
A slowed rise. PC: I'm trying to differentiate between motivators and, you know, overt acts, and what's really a withhold, and what isn't, and, you know, I'm still a little confused on that. LRH: All right.
 
PC: And... LRH: Does that answer the question? PC: Yeah.
 
And I'm not sure what – what a withhold is at this point, in a sense, you see? LRH: Oh. PC: And...
 
LRH: I see. PC: Because it . . . LRH: I get you.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Well, go ahead, if you want. PC: Well, it's just a “damage somebody, “you know ?
 
I mean, it's not – see, I'm confused. LRH: All right. TV DEMO: 45  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: You know, it's – it's that – that's – it's – it's – it's not a withhold, really, because I wouldn't mind telling you LRH: All right.
 
PC: You see? LRH: All right. PC: So I don't . . .
 
LRH: Very good. PC: ... but if I did tell you, it would be kind of a “damage”; then it would be an overt act, then it – you know, it would – the rudiments would go out. And then, you know, I'm a little confused on what's a withhold.
 
It's something I did. LRH: All right. PC: And I can't think of anything I did that I, you know, withheld from you.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Let me check the question again.
 
PC: Hm. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? Still get a reaction.
 
PC: Still get a reaction. LRH: There it is. PC: Right there.
 
LRH: There it is. PC: Well, I – I – I . . . LRH: There it is.
 
PC: Well, it's kind of an overt act now. I changed the franchise thing a – a little bit while I had the post. LRH: Hm.
 
PC: And it didn't really become an overt act until Robin got excited about it when he took over. LRH: Hm. PC: And then – then I – something happened.
 
LRH: Hm-m. TV DEMO: 46  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And I put in some – made franchises a little stiffer, you know, to get a franchise. LRH: Hm-m.
 
PC: And made co-audit centers beef it up a little bit to – you know, to get more information to them for people who didn't, I felt, deserve franchises or, you know, because they weren't working at it, you know? LRH: Hm-m. PC: To kind of give them a gradient to get up to a franchise.
 
Well, I withheld from you telling you that – that since Robin had taken over he's – he's switched it back and made franchise very easy to get, you know, and everything else. And I think that's wrong. And I withheld telling you that I think it's wrong LRH: All right.
 
Okay. PC: But it's none of my business anymore. LRH: All right.
 
PC: Huh. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Okay. Let me check the question. Have you withheld anything from me?
 
Well, it's clean. PC: Yeah. Oh, is it?
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Look around here and tell me if you can have anything.
 
Thank you. Squeeze them cans. All right.
 
Squeeze the cans. All right. Put the cans up on the table.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Touch the table.
 
Now, we were running Feel, weren't we? PC: Yeah, well, same thing LRH: Does it mean anything PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. Touch the table. Thank you.
 
Touch your chair. Thank you. Touch that.
 
Good. Thank you. Touch the table.
 
Good. Good. Touch the top of your head.
 
Good. Thank you. Touch the table.
 
Good. Touch your chair. Good.
 
All right. Pick up the cans. Okay.
 
Squeeze the cans. That's much better. Squeeze them again.
 
All right. We are going to let it go at that. Thank you.
 
All right. Made any part of your goals for this session? PC: I think so.
 
TV DEMO: 47  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. All right. PC: I think cleaning off this stuff on Jack will help me in Scientology – (a) in Scientology, help me in my – in studying.
 
LRH: Stay in PT while studying? All right. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Good. PC: And – what was my other goal? LRH: Sleep.
 
PC: Sleep? LRH: Sleep at night? PC: Yeah.
 
Yeah. Yeah, no trouble. No trouble.
 
Won't have any trouble. LRH: You're postulating that, or do you – do you know? PC: No, I know.
 
I just know. LRH: All right. PC: I´ll just go to sleep easily.
 
LRH: You're not trying to make me look good? PC: No, no. LRH: All right.
 
PC: No. I – I just – I just feel better, and feel kind of tired, and feel like sleeping, instead of nervously tired. There's a difference.
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Okay.
 
PC: Yeah. I've been nervous. And I don't feel as nervous now.
 
LRH: All right. PC: So... LRH: I see.
 
All right. Well, have you made any other gains in this session you care to mention? PC: Cleaned up on Scientology.
 
LRH: All right. PC: Remembered a few things, that. . . LRH: Okay.
 
PC: ... didn't remember otherwise. TV DEMO: 48  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Anything else? PC: Hm . . .
 
I just feel more rested . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...you know.
 
I don't feel as frantic as I used to feel. LRH: Good. All right.
 
Thank you. PC: I got on television again. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. PC: It's a game. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. Is there anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? PC: No, but thank you.
 
LRH: All right. You're sure? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Let me check that. Anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? Thank you.
 
All right. You're all right, then, huh? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Is it all right with you if I end this session now? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right, here it is. End of session. Has the session ended for you?
 
PC: Yeah. Yeah, it has. LRH: Has it?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Very good. Tell me I'm no longer auditing you. PC: You're no longer auditing me.
 
LRH: Thank you.


[[Category:Lectures]]
[[Category:Lectures]]
[[Category:Lectures SHSBC]]
[[Category:Lectures SHSBC]]
[[Category:Lectures 1962]]
[[Category:Lectures 1962]]

Revision as of 14:08, 26 December 2025

Series: Saint Hill Special Briefing Course (SHSBC)

Date: 23 May 1962

Speaker: L. Ron Hubbard

LRH: We are going to give you a proper session, and we're going to do some fish and fumble there. PC: Okay. LRH: I told you just a moment ago, we're going to look for this tick-tick, and we're going to see if we can find this tick-tick, and find out what it was, because that had me mighty curious when I had you on the line.

PC: That was the one on – on that Prepcheck chain I went down. LRH: Yeah. PC: Hm.

LRH: That's right. That was an interesting thing I actually did narrow it down to just that, and – since then. PC: Hm.

LRH: So we'll see if it's still there. PC: Great. LRH: Okay.

Is it all right with you if I begin this session now? PC: Yeah. LRH: Good.

Start of session. Has the session started for you? PC: Yeah.

Not really. LRH: All right. All right.

Here it is. PC: Yeah. LRH: Start of session.

PC: Okay. TV DEMO: 2 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. What goals would you like to set for this session?

PC: To be able to get to sleep easier at night. I've been having trouble getting to sleep. LRH: All right.

PC: The last few nights. And to . . . LRH: Good.

PC: ... to stay in present time when I'm studying When I sort of run out of – get out of present time, find myself read ing over a paragraph of a bulletin or something like that without reading it. LRH: Okay. All right.

Any other goals? PC: That ought to do it. LRH: All right.

Got an ARC break there? All right, thank you. Any goals you'd like to set for life or livingness?

PC: I'd like to – well, I have a goal: it's – it's – it's an imp – almost impossible goal, but maybe it's possible, you know? LRH: Yeah? PC: To get Class II by the end of the month, or by the end of this period.

But, you know, it's getting pretty close there. LRH: All right. Anything else?

PC: I'd like to be auditing next week. Start auditing. LRH: All right.

PC: Champing at the bit. I want to – like those – a little like those commandos who want to, you know, get out. LRH: All right.

Okay, Fred. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. All right.

Now, let's see. What process was working on you? It was Touch, wasn't it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.

Thank you. Put the cans down. All right.

We're going to run a little bit of Touch here. All right. Touch that table.

Thank you. Touch that wood. Thank you.

Touch that ashtray. Thank you. Touch that chair.

Thank you. Touch those cans. Good.

Give them a squeeze. Squeeze 'em. All right.

Squeeze 'em. Hey, that's a difference! All right, thank you.

All right. That's it. Now – check this on the meter.

Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. Thank you. Relatively clean.

PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 3 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Just a little slowdown; doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Feel better?

PC: Yeah. LRH: Hey, what do you know? That was fast enough, wasn't it?

All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties? Thank you.

That's clean. Since the last time I audited you . . . PC: A lot of water's gone under the bridge.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? I have an action there. PC: Well, I – I – I – I got an overt against Robin, I guess.

LRH: Okay. PC: I – I thought that was pretty clean. Anyway, when I – I left the – I left that post, I – I wrote a whole series of notes . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . explaining the job to ever – whoever. I – I addressed them to Franchise Secretary from Fred.

LRH: Hm. PC: Whole series of notes explaining the job, explaining various aspects, vari – you know, the various things I was working on. And I – I wasn't exactly sure Robin was going to come on the post, but I was pretty sure.

And – but I thought it would be kind of funny if I – you know, it would be interesting, if I . . . LRH: All right. PC: . . . wrote these notes and told Robin how to do the job.

But anyway, it was kind of an overt on Robin. LRH: Okay. PC: It was.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything you are withholding? Got a little tick there. PC: Well, it's uh – I uh . . .

LRH: That's it. PC: . . . this friend of mine – it's about this – this . . . Remember about – suspicions about that key and about . . .

TV DEMO: 4 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . this friend ? This is about that key.

I – I never got in touch with him. I wrote him a letter . . . LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: . . . saying, “Oh, you know, gee, I haven't seen you, and give me a call.” I got the letter back – no – n-n-not at – not at that address. LRH: All right. PC: You know?

And I was, you know, wondering what – what happened. Something's – something's wrong there, you see? LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: I have to check in . . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . because, (a) he wouldn't move without letting me know his new address.

LRH: Hm. PC: Um – (b) I might have wrote it to the wrong address . . . LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . but I – I – I don't think so. LRH: Mm-mm. PC: And something wrong there.

I have to look into that. LRH: All right. Very good.

All right. Let me check this on the meter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? Little tick, much smaller. PC: Yeah.

LRH: That's it. PC: I had a party at my place, and some girls over, and kind of a wild party. LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: I told you about that, I think . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . probably the group, you know . . . LRH: Okay. TV DEMO: 5 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . but not about that party.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding?

That's cleaner than a wolf's tooth. Very good? PC: Yep.

LRH: All right. Do you have a present time problem? Thank you.

That's clean. Okay. Now, I told you about fishing around here.

PC: Yeah. LRH: And we're going to do some fish and fumble . . . PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: . . . see where we wind up here. And mysteriously, I have no tick-tick. PC: Well...

LRH: Obviously, you're . . . What were you going to say? PC: I don't know.

It was on that chain, and it was on that past life, or connected u with it. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: Maybe if I found that again and I could – I don't know if it was that or something else, or what.

LRH: Well, that, you know . . . PC: It was something – it was something about messing with little girls . . . LRH: Yeah?

PC: . . . you knows? LRH: Yeah. PC: Something – messing with little girls . . .

LRH: There it is. There it is. There it is.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Ha-ha, ha-ha! PC: Uhh.

LRH: All right. Well, we didn't have to fish very long there, did we? PC: No.

LRH: Something about messing with little girls. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 6 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: And just like that, we get it back.

All right, let me check it now. PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay?

What about messing with little girls? Well, that isn't quite the tick-tick. PC: No.

LRH: Now, let me see if we can get it just a little closer than that. There it is. What did you just think of?

PC: Dang! I – I – I just look – kind of looked at a little something there, and kind of looked away. I can't – you know, sort of a hunk of something, you know?

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. PC: One of those gray hunks of something . . . LRH: That's right.

PC: ... that don't have any definite . . . LRH: There it is again. PC: I – it looks like a – a rocket ship nose, or something, or – or a bomb nose, or something like this.

I don't know. LRH: Yeah. PC: Is that it, or . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: ... or not? I . . .

LRH: Well, let me check this over again. What about messing with little girls? Ahh, there – there's a tiny little slowdown there.

PC: I looked at that thing again, when you mentioned it. LRH: Something here about messing with little girls in the nose of a rocket ship? PC: I – that's what the – I looked at that, and there was something connected there or someplace; I don't know what.

LRH: Yeah. PC: But, you see, it . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: It's a – it's kind of a, you know, what's happening here? You know? How come – how come this connects up like this or something like that, you know ?

LRH: All right. Well, I'll find it. PC: Yeah.

TV DEMO: 7 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: I'll find it. Now – there it is! Who are you looking at?

PC: Well, it – that was th-th-those two little girls that we talked about in that Prepchecking session that I . . . LRH: That's it. PC: ... those two twins.

LRH: Uh-huh. PC: They were either twins or – or sisters that I messed with . . . LRH: Uh-uh.

PC: ... in – back in early – early days in my life. LRH: That's it. PC: I was ten years old, or so.

And so . . . LRH: And we were going down that chain. PC: Yeah.

Yeah. We kind of went past them, and . . . LRH: All right.

Let me see if I can get a What question that's right into the middle there. PC: Hm. LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls?

That's it. PC: Is it? LRH: I get a tinier, smaller read.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I might be able to vary that just a little bit. There it is.

What's that? PC: That's a picture of sexually interfering with a little girl. LRH: Yeah.

PC: I don't think it's this lifetime. I mean, I don't know . . . LRH: Well, that doesn't matter.

PC: Yeah. That's that sex pervert or . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . probably a sex-pervert thing. But that's tied up with that other – that – that . . . Well, it – I – I think it's the same little girl as in that other picture I've had so many years, I looked at.

LRH: What was that? The . . . PC: The one of having a little girl with her panties down, and with a – switching her.

TV DEMO: 8 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And seeing – this picture is seeing an – an older man do this. Watching it from the bushes, something like this . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . in – in the yard of this . . . LRH: Right.

PC: . . . place with . . . LRH: Right. PC: . . . a stream going by or something like that.

LRH: Right. PC: I've had that picture so long, you know? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And this – I'm not sure if it's the same girl or not. LRH: All right. Now, hold your cans still there and let me check it.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check another little What here. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about punishing little girls? Clean. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? It's not giving me the same read as the double tick. PC: Yeah.

LRH: There – what's that? PC: Switching little girls. LRH: What about switching little girls?

That isn't it. PC: Eating little girls? LRH: Beating little girls?

PC: Beating or eating? LRH: Eating PC: Eating little girls. TV DEMO: 9 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.

What about eating little girls? Well, I get a something of a reaction there. What about eating little girls?

It cleaned. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.

Let me try another What question here. What about stealing little girls? I get an action here.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You see, the reason I'm putting that together isn't a shot in the dark. you were talking about taking over a body before this lifetime. PC: Yeah.

LRH: See, and I was . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . getting a reaction on that.

Now, what about taking over little girls? I don't get the same reaction. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: What about stealing little girls? I get an instant read on that. What about stealing little girls?

It's not the same instant read I'm fishing for, however. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: There it is.

There it is. It was just for a minute and we went by it. PC: Boy, that's awfully fast, you know?

It's – it's . . . Boy, it's something that's really occluded. LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PC: Ha! No – all around it, but I can't . . . LREI: All right.

PC: . . . can't get to it. LRH: All right. PC: But I keep popping – keep thinking about – on the same line, I don't know if it's just jazz chat or what.

But some incident I ran – some past life incident, way back. LRH: Hm-mm. PC: Spaceship – just wound up taking over the . . .

Supposed to burn off this planet and save one city and rape the city, or something like that. LRH: What's this now? Take a . . .

PC: I – I – I. TV DEMO: 10 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . a burner . . . PC: Yeah, to burn off the whole planet.

LRH: Oh, you burnt off a whole – I got it. PC: Yeah, I was supposed to blow – burn the whole thing off, but I saved one city, and I raped the city before I burned it off LRH: Yeah. PC: And part of that was it – at least as I came up in – I don't know, it – hell, it picked them – I mean, it's just not . . .

LRH: Well, now there – there's the double tick. PC: Yeah? It's – I take – took all the – asked all the five-year-old girls in the – all the five-year-old blond little girls in the town into the palace, and raped them all.

LRH: Hm-hm. We're getting the tick-tick. PC: Yeah.

Huh! LRH: We did. PC: And then – did that and my – I ordered my men, or my men and I raped – raped all these little girls . . .

LRH: Mm-m. There's your tick-tick. PC: . . . five-year-old girls.

And then afterward, we burned the city off. LRH: All right. Let's see if I can make up a What here.

PC: Hm. LRH: What about raping a city? All right.

What about raping little girls? What about raping little girls? No.

What about that auditing session? What about that auditing session that you ran that in? That's it.

There's a latent on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.

What auditor was that? PC: Think it was Stan. LRH: Who?

PC: Stan Stromfeld. LRH: Yeah? PC: Think it was him.

Must have been him. LRH: Was it? I don't get a reaction here.

PC: No? TV DEMO: 11 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Was it Stan Stromfeld that ran that? I don't get any reaction on that.

PC: I'll be darned. LRH: Somebody earlier than that? PC: Janine?

No. Unless it was New York. Oh, maybe it was Doris.

Marge ? Damn. I don – I can't remember . . .

LRH: All right. Let's put it together here. PC: ... who it was.

Raping – past lives and . . . LRH: There – you got the – there's the ghost of a tick. PC: Denise?

LRH: Yeah. There it is. Microscopically smaller.

PC: Yeah, I know it. you . . . Something there. LRH: I just want to know what auditor it was.

PC: ...I'm not sure. you know? I mean, I – I – I don't really get anything. LRH: All right.

Well, let me help you out, may I? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Was it a girl auditor? Was it a male auditor? Male auditor.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Did it happen in the United States? Did it happen in Paris?

All right, did it happen in Paris? Now I've got a double tick. PC: Hm.

LRH: What are you thinking about? Happening in Paris? PC: Vincent?

Mario? Maybe it was Jack Campbell. LRH: All right.

Was it Jack Campbell? PC: Maybe it was. LRH: All right.

Was that auditor Jack Campbell? PC: Yeah, I guess it was. LRH: There's something here about it now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm gettin . . . PC: Yeah, I guess it was. 'Cause he – he – he – he ran me on RT-3, think it was – OT 3.

LRH: Yeah. TV DEMO: 12 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And it kind of went way back . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: ... into a lot of stuff . . . LRH: Now we're getting a double tick here. PC: ... past life stuff.

Yeah. There was that. LRH: All right.

You remember this now? PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay. And, now, did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?

PC: Undoubtedly! No doubt. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, I think he did. LRH: All right. All right.

Okay. Let me check that on the meter. Did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?

I get a reaction. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Now . . . PC: It – it's like saying, did Jack Campbell ever and it you ? You know, I mean, it's like the same question.

In fast, it was – it was funny. LRH: Now, we're taking off from that as a Zero question. PC: All right.

Ooh. LRH: All right. PC: There must be something there?

Line charge? Or something. LRH: Okay.

Now let me check out a possible One. PC: All right. LRH: Okay.

What did you successfully hide from Jack Campbell? All right, let me check that. Now let me check another one.

What have you done to Jack Campbell? Well, we're going to take that first. PC: Yeah, it would be a good idea, I think.

LRH: Rightly or wrongly, we will take that first, because it'll flatten rather rapidly. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 13 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.

We will test that now. We know that you have withheld from him. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: All right. Would that be doing something to him? PC: The action of withholding from him?

LRH: Yeah, we actually are wrong here in phrasing this What question . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . but I'm just testing this thing Is there a specific overt?

PC: Uh... LRH: I get a tick. PC: Yeah.

It – it's a kind of a – a specific overt, many times, in a sense, you know? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Well, the first overt, really, is that I considered that kind of – something was not quite right, or I didn't quite . . .

Well, when I first took the Communication Course in Paris, this . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . you know, in Scientology – the Scientology Communication Course – you take the Communication Course.

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I – I didn't have the money for the course, and I told him that – oh, I was – I – I knew he liked me. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: All right, I knew he and Gernie liked me, I knew they were interested in me, they liked my work in the theater, blah-blah-blah. LRH: Hm. PC: And so I said, “Well, I – I – well, I – I'm – gee, I'd like to take this course, Jack, but I – you know, I can't pay for it.

Don't have the money.” LRH: Hm. PC: Like that. Now, I might have been able to serape the money up if I had really – you know. you know, if he'd said, “Well, no, you go after the money and come and take the course.” LRH: All right.

TV DEMO: 14 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: But he said – 'I don't have the money. I – I can't take this . . .” and he said, “All right. It's all right,” he said, “We – we want you to get the course.

You can pay me later. “I said, “Fine.” LRH: Well, tell me this now. Good. Tell me this now: Was that – the question we're on is doing something to him.

Now, what specifically did you do to him there? PC: I kind of conned him into – I conned him into giving me the course for nothing You know? LRH: All right.

Good. You conned him into it. PC: Yeah.

After – yeah . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... a fashion.

LRH: That's it. All right. Now, what about conning Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah, that's a good What question. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.

That's a good What question. Very good. LRH: Good.

Well, that's the one we are going to work. PC: Yeah, it makes me sweat a little bit. LRH: All right.

Very good. When was that? PC: Summer of 1968.

LRH: Very good. Is that all there is to it? PC: Oh, I thought, well, if – you know, what do I have to lose here, you know?

Nothing – nothing in this course, and, well, figured on paying him later on. LRH: All right. Good enough.

All right. And what might have appeared there? PC: Well, I could have shake – shaken some money up from someplace, I think . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... to pay for it. LRH: Very good.

And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, Jack didn't. I – I – I – the fact I could have gotten the money someplace to pay for it, I think.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Very, very good.

Okay. When was that? Very specifically.

TV DEMO: 15 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: July of – gee, the Moscow Art Theatre was in town. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I think it was the end of June.

I think it was the end of June. End of June in 1968. LRH: All right.

Good. And what else is there about this? PC: Well, I – I – I – I went on and took the course, and conned him again into giving me the HPA Course without paying for it over there.

LRH: All right. Okay. And what didn't appear there?

PC: Fifty thousand francs for the HPA Course. LRH: Oh-ho-ho, I see. PC: Still hasn't appeared.

LRH: All right. And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, the – the people who I owed money to didn't find out that I was spending more money or, you know . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... putting myself into more debt . . . LRH: I see.

PC: ... in a sense. LRH: All right. PC: Kind of a little bit of an overt against them.

Very funny. LRH: What? PC: Just getting more debts without paying them off LRH: I see.

PC: You know, something like that. LRH: All right. Very good.

Very good. All right. Now, let's test this What question.

PC: Hm. LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? Have to test it again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

That seems to have a tiny little bit of reaction on it. Let me ask you this. Is there any earlier moment there?

Is there anything earlier, before that Comm Course? What's that? PC: Yeah, had coffee or something with Jack and Gernie...

LRH: Yeah? TV DEMO: 16 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . and – I – Jack paid for the coffee or the drink or something – earlier, when I first met him. And I kind of conned him there a little bit. you know, he paid for the drink.

LRH: All right. Well, when was that? PC: Was after a play.

It – it was – well, it must have been after a – it must have been that spring, along in March or something like that. LRH: Get a tick-tick. PC: Yeah.

In March . . . LRH: Yeah. All right.

Good enough. PC: . . . that year. Yeah.

LRH: All right. What else is there to that? PC: I just – that was the first time I saw him.

That night. LRH: That's the first time you ever saw him? PC: Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Bang PC: Yeah. Gernie invited me for a drink after an American Embassy Little Theatre group . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . production. LRH: All right.

PC: I'm not sure if it was hers or somebody else's. And – with her and Jack, and I saw this character first appear. LRH: All right.

Okay. And what might have appeared there? PC: Hm.

Well, I don't know. A couple of hundred francs from my pocket, I guess, to pay for the drinks, could have appeared. LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I think I was broke, or something, and I had to con him. you know, I couldn't pay the drink. I don't think I had any money on me, or something like this.

It was funny. LRH: All right. Very good. who didn't find out about it?

PC: Well Jack and – Jack and Gernie didn't. LRH: All right. Very good.

Very good. All right. Let me test this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

Still got an action. Did you meet him any earlier than that? TV DEMO: 17 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Not that I know of LRH: Ah-ah-ah.

PC: Yeah? LRH: You meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? PC: Man, I don't remember if I do.

LRH: Come on, come on, come on. Did you meet him earlier than that? I got a reaction here.

PC: No. LRH: Let me test this very carefully, before I send you off on a wild-goose chase. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? You've got a reaction here, man.

PC: I'll be darned. Jack Campbell earlier. LRH: Yes, Jack Campbell earlier.

PC: I knew Gernie before I knew Jack. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: The first I remember Gernie is meeting her after one of my productions there.

LRH: All right. PC: And, I heard about Jack. Damn!

Or something, and I was kind of curious about him. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And...

LRH: What are you plowing around with there? You got a double tick. PC: Yeah.

It was meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... after that production . . .

LRH: Right. PC: ... in – in – in the foyer of the . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... American Students and Artists Center . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

TV DEMO: 18 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: ... and – this – there's some unknown there. I can't remember about this – that . . . Something . . .

I – I wondered where Jack was, or something like this. I'd never met him, you see? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But I wondered where Jack was . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... or something.

You know? I mean, there's – there's something like that. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: This – about all I got. LRH: All right. Just experimentally, was there a desire to withhold yourself from meeting Jack?

No. All right. Let me check this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

Still reacts. PC: I intended on meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Good.

PC: ... I intended to get – get her interested in my theater project. LRH: Ah!

PC: And maybe that's conning Jack a little bit, by getting Gernie interested. LRH: All right. PC: Inadvertently conning Jack – conning Gernie into – into getting her to back my theater project.

LRH: All right. PC: Because I heard she was important, you know . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... she had connections . . . LRH: Now we got little tick-tick. Yeah.

PC: ... and money, and – yeah – money and connections, and . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... may – maybe it's kind of overt against Jack, and conning him too, or something.

LRH: Well, you don't have to add it up to him. Were you trying . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... to con Gernie? TV DEMO: 19 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. LRH: Hm?

PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now is there a missed withhold right there at that meeting? PC: First meeting with Jack?

Yeah. LRH: No. With Gernie.

PC: Gernie. LRH: There a missed withhold there with Gernie? What would it be?

What didn't she find out about? PC: On me? Gee, I don't know.

That – well, the first I – when I first met her, I – I didn't – here was this big, fat woman here, you know? LRH: Oh, I see. PC: Yeah.

And – but – had a lot of – pretty alive, you know? Gernie is pretty alive. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She – and she was interested in – in – in me because she had seen the production and liked it. And I didn't know who she was. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She – very nice talking, and gets – I got some admiration there, and stuff like this. . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . you know, it was nice.

LRH: Well, have you answered the auditing question there? Is there a missed withhold from Gernie? I haven't got a reaction on it.

PC: No, I – I – I can't think of any. LRH: All right. Now, let me test this What question again, huh?

PC: Hm. LRH: All right. What about conning Jack?

Now, we've still got a little tick here. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Did you meet Jack Campbell – coming back to one we had before . . . PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 20 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?

All right. Let me ask you once more. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?

I'm not getting a reaction on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Ill – Ill say it once more, because you're getting dives here.

PC: Hm. LRH: Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? No, that's clean.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Now, is there a meeting between that first meeting with Gernie and what you were saying was the first meeting with Jack . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . when he bought the drinks? PC: The meeting with Gernie?

Between that time? LRH: Yeah, well, is that – is . . . Yeah, yeah.

Is there a second meeting with Gernie before you met Jack? PC: Gee, I sure got it occluded if there is. There must – I . . .

LRH: Uh-huh. PC: . . . yeah, there must have been. There must have been.

LRH: Uh-huh. We got a . . . PC: Must have been.

LRH: The double action is on there. PC: Yeah. Funny, I've a little charge, too.

LRH: What goes on here? PC: Gee. I'm just trying to think of what it was.

LRH: All right. Good. Good.

PC: Yeah. You know, it must have been, because by the time I met Jack, Gernie and I were already good friends, you know, there . . . LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Wonder what happened in there. LRH: Yeah.

All right. When might that have been? PC: March?

Well, yes. I first met her, right . . . God, 58.

What was that, Streetcar Named Desire? TV DEMO: 21 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm? PC: Yeah.

Streetcar Named Desire. I first met her then, when – when she was – it must have been after Street – no, it must hare been sooner than Streetcar. Man, I've got so much confusion through this period, you know?

LRH: Interesting. PC: It's interesting. LRH: All right.

PC: Uh... LRH: Okay. Well, how can I help you out there?

PC: Well, I – I – I – I'm not sure what you – what to look for now. I kind of got lost off of that . . . LRH: All right.

Now, I asked you if there was a meeting . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... with Gernie, before you – from that – between that first meeting . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: ... and when you met Jack. I was asking you . . .

PC: Yeah, there must have been several of them. LRH: ... when was that period? PC: Yeah.

I can't remember when I first met Gernie. LRH: That's it. PC: Do you follow?

LRH: That's it. We haven't got the first meeting spotted, have we? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Well, when might it have been? PC: I – it seems to me it was after Waiting for Godot.

I – I – after I did that production. And that was in – sp – well, spring of 57. Yeah.

LRH: We're getting a bit of reaction there. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Is that all there is to that meeting now? PC: Yeah. You mean that meeting with Gernie?

LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. Far as – yeah.

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Far as I know. LRH: All right.

What didn't appear there? PC: Well, Jack didn't. LRH: All right.

Okay. Did you particularly want him to appear on that scene? PC: No, I didn't even know about him existing, you see, at that – at that point, really.

LRH: Oh, you didn't know he existed at all? PC: No. LRH: All right.

Very good. All right. And who didn't find out about that first meeting?

I got a reaction. PC: Oh, the – yeah, the – the people that ran the American Students and Artists Center didn't find out about that. LRH: Oh, yeah.

All right. Very good. PC: 'Cause they were supporting me, they were behind me, and it was kind of – I don't know.

LRH: Well? PC: I was – l was getting support from other people too. Confused.

I was, you know, very confused there. LRH: Well, all right. Now we're getting onto something interesting While they were supporting you, were you looking for support from other people?

PC: Yeah, for my – well, not really. But I felt kind of guilty about – people would off – or something. You know, I'd – I'd get admiration and stuff like this.

I was becoming an independent figure, you see? LRH: I see. PC: Kind of like this.

LRH: I see. PC: In a sense. LRH: All right.

Good enough. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check this over now.

Another What question here incidental, just to be checked. TV DEMO: 23 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie?

Now there's a double tick on these meetings with Gernie. PC: They're certainly occluded, in through here. LRH: There it is.

PC: There's a year . . . LRH: There it is. PC: See, there's a year going through there . . .

LRH: All right. PC: . . . about that. LRH: Hm.

PC: You know. LRH: I'm going to put that down as a . . . PC: Boy, I sure had trouble with Gernie later on, so there must be – there must be something in there.

LRH: Yeah? You do something to her? PC: Yeah.

LRH: What? PC: Oh – I – later on there, I fought with her, you know? LRH: All right.

PC: Fought with her . . . LRH: Did you do something to her specifically? We got a tick.

PC: Yeah. I – yeah, one time she wanted to – she wanted to come and have supper with me. I told her no, I was going to go with some other people.

LRH: Hm-km. PC: I – I – you know, kind of pushed her away. LRH: You what?

PC: I kind of repulsed her. LRH: All right. PC: Repulsed her and . . .

TV DEMO: 24 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Well, let me ask this question: What about refusing Gernie? No, that isn't live. It isn't quite right.

What would you do to Gernie? You repulsed her, then. PC: That time.

Yeah. LRH: Well, when was that? PC: Was quite a bit later.

This – I was back . . . LRH: Well, when was it? PC: Nineteen – Jesus – Sixty.

Spring of 60. LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: March of 60. LRH: Is that all there is to it? PC: Well, there's other stuff during that incident.

She was producing; I was directing a production there. LRH: Ah. You were working with her.

PC: Yeah, working together. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: Long time.

LRH: Good. All right. And what didn't appear there?

PC: In that particular instance there of repulsing her? Well, some friendliness on my part didn't appear. LRH: All right.

Very good. And who didn't find out about it? PC: Well, Gernie didn't, really.

LRH: Okay. Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me ask you a couple of just leading questions here, could I? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is there any affair – is there any affair with Gernie?

Is there any refusal to have an affair with Gernie? PC: Yeah. Not – do you mean love affair?

Or . . . LRH: Yeah, I don't care. PC: Yeah.

It was never – it was – it was neither way, you know? It was – we got together one time and – on this American Theatre Association thing, and she said, “Fred,” she said, “I'd help you, but I want something out of it.” TV DEMO: 25 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And I – at that time I – I – I – I wondered – I had the consideration that, well, people should help me because they should help me, you know?

Not because they want something out of me. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: You know ?

Very . . . LRH: All right. We're on the double-tick line.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Go on. PC: Yeah.

And that – that I deserve to be helped. You know? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I – I – and I don't – I don't need to give anything in return. LRH: Ah. PC: Except my – my “contribution of art to the world, “you know?

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Or something like that – some jazz like that. I'm important enough, and I´m – you know, I should be helped and not be bothered about things like this, and what have you.

I – I kind of left her with a maybe on that whole thing. LRH: What did she mean by, she expected something out of it? What do you think she meant?

PC: Well, she – she expected to direct a play now and then, when she wanted to, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . enter in artistically into the thing And I wasn't interested in letting her do this.

I didn't consider her capable at the time of . . . LRH: Did she ever find out about this? PC: She never found out about that, no.

LRH: Oh. Is there a consistent withhold here on the subject of her capability? PC: There certainly is, yeah.

Certainly is. Certainly is. All through – all through our relationship.

Kind of culminating up into producing this play . . . LRH: Hm. PC: ... together.

TV DEMO: 26 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: I found out, in working together, that she was very capable. LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Before that – you know. LRH: You had an opinion through that period? PC: Yeah.

Yeah. LRH: All right. She didn't find out about this at any time?

PC: No. LRH: Did Jack ever find out about this? PC: No.

LRH: Might Jack have found out about this when he was auditing you? PC: Yeah, he might have, if he'd . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... asked me. LRH: Is there anything else about Gernie that Jack might have found out about? That's it.

PC: I – I had a feeling she was interested in me as a man, you see, sexually. LRH: I see. PC: I couldn't – you know.

I wouldn't want Jack to know that, that I kind of got the idea from her. Not through any really terribly overt – kind of covertly, I mean. LRH: I see.

PC: And I wouldn't want Jack to know about that. LRH: All right. All right.

Now let me disentangle . . . PC: Yes. LRH: ... all of this a little bit here.

PC: Right. LRH: And let me ask that question again, check it on the meter. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Might Jack have found out something about you and Gernie when he was auditing you? Getting a little action on this. PC: Seems to be something else.

LRH: It's what something else? TV DEMO: 27 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: He might have found something else out – something else about me and Gernie, beside what I said. LRH: Something else . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: ... than this capability thing PC: Yeah. LRH: Was there anything else to find out?

Got a reaction. PC: I didn't like her! LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I didn't like her. LRH: Good.

Well, might he have practically blown your head off if he'd fount out about your opinions with Gernie? What do you think? Something going on here.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. PC: Yeah.

I – I – I don't know – I – my considerations at the time or my considerations now? LRH: Your considerations at the time. PC: At the time.

Well, you know, I – he might have – he might not have liked me, or something like that. But that's the missed withhold. LRH: All right.

Very good. All right. Let me check this lineup now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay? What about conning Jack Campbell?

Got a reaction. PC: Hm. LRH: Instant reaction.

PC: Hm. LRH: But it's not now the dirty needle reaction. PC: Yeah.

I mean, there are some other times when I conned him, kind of LRH: Oh, just give me a rapid rundown. What's the relationship here? PC: Well, I – I – I got some books from him and never paid him for the books.

LRH: All right. Good. Thank you.

Any other one? PC: Oh, I – I – I was going to trade twenty-five hours of auditing with him. TV DEMO: 28 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-m.

PC: That's – that was a con, because he was a better auditor than I was. LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: Actually I got twelve and a half. LRH: Good. Good.

PC: Uh... LRH: Any others? PC: Can't think of any right now.

LRH: All right. What? PC: No, it's a motivator.

LRH: Well, that's all right. What's the motivator? Perfectly all right with me.

PC: Yeah. Well, there's – there was – there was some confusion with him about when I was on the course – when he came on the ACC over here. That's . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . when he was a student on an ACC. He and Vincent came over here.

And – well, no, there – th-th-th-th-there's an overt in there. Yeah. LRH: Yeah, that's what I was going to just ask for, but you saved me the trouble.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. What's the overt?

PC: There's an overt in there. He left Mario and myself to teach the course there. Mm?

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And we were supposed to work together in teaching the course. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But Mario went on a concert tour, didn't come back. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: See?

And he was supposed to come back in a week, didn't come back. LRH: Hm. PC: . . . at all, you know.

But I went ahead and taught the course, myself LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 29 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And spent the time blaming Jack, kind of, for not – you know, for Mario – to let Mario – Jack, everybody else, whereby . . . The overt was – golly, it's kind of – there's something to do with holding down the whole thing by myself . . .

LRH: Hm. PC: . . . and proving to them that they were no good, or something like this. you know, I don't know. LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Something like that. LRH: Good enough.

Thank you. All right, let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell?

All right. I don't know if that was a reaction or not, I'll check it again. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got some kind of a reaction. Let's get the 1B checked here.

PC: All right. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? All right, let me check it again.

What about these meetings with Gernie? That is clean. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now let me check the first one again. What about conning Jack Campbell?

Let me check it again. What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got a reaction on that.

PC: Yeah. LRH: It's much quieter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Everything is smoothing out. There is something else here. Is that the first meeting you had with Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah! LRH: Was it? PC: Yeah!

LRH: All right. PC: Far as I know. LRH: Now, did you and Gernie talk about Jack Campbell?

All right. There's no reaction there. TV DEMO: 30 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm-m.

LRH: Is there any other con there that you might have skipped? Did you ever borrow money from him, or . . . PC: Yeah.

Yeah. LRH: . . . never paid it back? You so far have just mentioned course fees, and so forth.

Did you ever borrow money and not pay it back? PC: I think I paid all the money back I borrowed from him. LRH: I get no reaction on it.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Did you ever take a girl away from him?

PC: No. LRH: Did you ever steal anything off of him? PC: No.

LRH: All right. Did you ever take a fee while you were teaching there and didn't pay it back, or something like that? PC: No.

No. LRH: Huh? PC: No.

Huh. LRH: What do you mean? PC: Oh, yeah!

LRH: What? PC: Yeah, I just remembered an overt I got against him . . . LRH: Yeah, all right.

PC: . . . on that. LRH: What is it? PC: While I was there, teaching – you know, teaching the course, holding things down, his – I'd use his office, you know, I mean, his office there.

LRH: Yeah, yeah. PC: And he said, well, I wasn't supposed to go in the bottom left-hand drawer of his desk. LRH: Right.

TV DEMO: 31 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I'm not supposed to touch that bottom left-hand drawer. LRH: Okay. PC: And so I went in the bottom – so I did go in the bottom left-hand drawer . . .

LRH: All right. PC: . . . and rummaged around there a bit, and found some dirty pictures down there. LRH: Okay.

PC: And never told him about that. Never told him about it. LRH: Okay.

Did he audit you after that? PC: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

LRH: All right. Thank you. Thank you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Good enough. Now let me check this question again.

What about conning Jack Campbell? Well, this is getting to look much cleaner. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. What about conning Jack Campbell? I am not now getting an instant read..

PC: Hm. LRH: . . . but it's a little bit before, and it's a little bit after. PC: Yeah.

Well, there's a lot of – must be a lot of – several other things I have done to him, you know? LRH: Well, think of any offhand? PC: Hm, hm, hm.

LRH: What's that? PC: Oh, well, I – yeah. I conned him there.

LRH: What? PC: I took the test, my final exam paper . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . from the HPA, home, and did it at home . . . LRH: Oh, I see. PC: . . . in a sense.

That's sort of a con. Well, yeah, because I – I – I went home and I – actually, when I took this paper home, I thought it was a joke about learning the Axioms. I – I – you know, learning, memorizing all those Axioms.

That was silly. TV DEMO: 32 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And when I – I came – I brought it back.

I copied them out of the book, you know. LRH: Hm. PC: Brought them back, you know, I brought them back.

And he looked at it, and he checked it over, with me there, and he saw that everything was perfect in it. LRH: Hm-m. PC: You know?

And he looked at me kind of funny, like “Well, you got it right.” LRH: Hm. PC: I conned him there, because I realized when he looked at me funny that I – it wasn't a joke. I should have memorized those Axioms.

LRH: Oh, I get you. PC: And I – I hadn't. LRH: All right.

PC: And – and at that moment I knew that – really that – that I hadn't. You know, I mean, I should have, or something, you know ? LRH: Hm-hm, yeah.

PC: And I conned him there. LRH: Okay. PC: Yeah.

LRH: We got it taped now. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.

Let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? This looks fairly clean.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: I'll check it just one more time. What about conning Jack Campbell?

I haven't got anything on it. PC: Hm. LRH: That's clean.

PC: That was a – that was a – actually, that was the big one there. I mean, that – that one there. LRH: Yeah.

That cleaned it. All right. PC: Funny, because I told you about that once, but it wasn't – it wasn't as precise.

TV DEMO: 33 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: It wasn't “who missed the withhold,” was it? PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Now, all right. Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?

PC: Nope. LRH: All right. Are you sure of that?

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking? PC: Now about the double tick?

Is that off ? LRH: I knew there was – I can't find it. PC: Yeah.

LRH: It started disappearing when we cleaned up Gernie. PC: Hm. Hm.

LRH: And I haven't seen it. PC: Hm? LRH: But you ask about it there.

There's . . . PC: Hm. LRH: ... there's a wide motion, there's a wider motion.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: It's about so long, but it isn't the tick I had in the first place. PC: Hm.

LRH: I've got a tick here of some kind or another. PC: Hm. LRH: It's not a tick.

I've got a – a stop and a sweep. PC: Yeah. LRH: But I was looking for a dirty little tick-tick.

PC: Yeah. LRH: And it seems to have dived for cover at the moment. PC: Hm.

LRH: There – no, there it is again. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 34 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Why?

What are you thinking of, as you think of that? PC: I don't know. That's the funny thing, you see?

I kind of look at something. I kind of look at an area of the bank. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: You know, or something, or a piece of a ridge there, or something like that. LRH: Well, that's all right. PC: You know ?

And I get it there . . . LRH: It's all right. It's all right.

Okay. PC: I can bring it back by sweeping, you know? Scanning across.

LRH: Well, try it – to bring it back. PC: 1b bring it back? It's – I don't know.

LRH: Yeah. A little bit. Little bit.

PC: Yeah, there's a little button there, it's – push – I don't know. LRH: All right. There it is.

PC: Creeps up on me. I was just trying there . . . LRH: All right.

But do you think we've attained anything there, on that? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Okay.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's see what we've got here. Okay?

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me any half-truth? What's the half-truth?

That's it. PC: Oh, about writing those things for Robin, maybe. That's what I thought of . . .

LRH: All right. All right. PC: ... right there.

LRH: Thank you. I'll check it on the meter. Have you told me any half-truth?

Got it. Check, bang It reacts. PC: Hm-hm.

Half-truths. Gee, I don't know. LRH: Hm?

TV DEMO: 35 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I don't know what it Was. LRH: Think of anything at all? What's that?

PC: Oh, well, there must be some other things with Jack, I think. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: You know.

LRH: All right. PC: I was . . . LRH: You weren't satisfied that the What question was clean?

PC: Yeah, I was satisfied. LRH: Yeah. PC: There was probably other things on the chain there along some – you know, little ones . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... like that, but not enough to . . . LRH: Okay.

PC: Hm. LRH: Thank you. I'll check the auditing question.

Have you told me any half-truth? Clean. Untruth?

What's the untruth? PC: Untruth. LRH: That's it.

Untruth. PC: About Gernie? I don't know.

LRH: Think of an untruth? PC: Well, she didn't actually – I don't think she really ever really insinuated that she was interested in me, sexually. LRH: Ah.

PC: You know? I – it – I think it was mainly my own ideas or something. You know, I mean, I kind of switched things around or something.

LRH: All right. Okay. Have you told me any untruth?

Got a reaction. PC: Hm. Huh, I don't know what it is.

Untruth. LRH: There's something PC: I don't know what it is. TV DEMO: 36 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Something there.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. I'll ask the question again.

PC: Yeah. Yeah. LRH: Your answer is you don't know what it is?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Thank you.

PC: I- I got an idea. LRH: What is it? PC: Something about beginning rudiments.

LRH: Did you think one of them was still hot? PC: Maybe I had kind of a suspicion or something. I wasn't sure.

LRH: Oh, yeah? PC: Well, it could of – yeah, well, kind of a – of a missed withhold or something, you know? LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I was – I was – when you said – when you asked about a present time problem, I had a tiny present time problem that I haven't been able to get to sleep too well . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: ... over the last week or so. LRH: Yeah. PC: And I thought that it might show up.

And then it didn't show up. And I thought it might show up, and uh – but it didn't show up. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And so I thought maybe that was something wrong there. LRH: All right. Is there an untruth?

Was any of that an untruth? PC: No, no, there wasn't an untruth on that. LRH: Well, was it an untruth?

Did you tell me that it . . . ? PC: An untruth, huh? LRH: Thinking of something there.

TV DEMO: 37 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Well, yeah. If I said I had a present time problem and it didn't react on the meter, then it would be an untruth. LRH: Is that right?

PC: Yes. LRH: Is that what occurred? PC: Yeah.

LRH: You're not sure? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that your answer?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Very good.

I will check that. All right. Have you told me an untruth?

I get a reaction. Let me check it again . . . PC: Hm.

LRH: ... because you got a pretty dirty needle. PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me an untruth?

PC: Gee, I don't know what it is. LRH: This is very equivocal. PC: Yeah?

LRH: Do you have a guilty conscience about telling untruths or something of the sort here? This is not getting the same reaction . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . constantly at all. PC: I – I – I have a guilty conscience. It's just, you know, a general one-has-a-guilty- conscience guilty conscience, you know?

LRH: Well, does that upset you that I asked you if you've told an untruth? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that what this is falling on?

PC: Yeah, maybe. LRH: Well, is it or isn't it? PC: Yeah, I didn't expect it to fall.

TV DEMO: 38 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Oh, all right. Okay. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Let me check it again. Have you told me an untruth?

Now, I still get a reaction on this. That's it. PC: Oh.

About my friend with the letter? LRH: All right. PC: My friend ?

LRH: Well, what's the untruth there? That's it. PC: Well, I'm not – I'm not absolutely positive I wrote it to the right address.

Huh? Have to go back, I have to check my – my address book . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . to make sure, because I just – I wrote the address out, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . after having remembered it.

And I'm not – I have to check my address book. LRH: All right. Thank you.

Is there an untruth in that anyplace? PC: Well, I said that . . . LRH: What was the untruth?

PC: Hm. LRH: That's it. PC: Well, that he – that I'm sure – well, that I'm sure that he would have – would have told me if he had moved.

LRH: Oh, I see. PC: You know. LRH: All right.

PC: And maybe he wouldn't have. I'm not sure that he would have told me that he moved. LRH: All right.

Very good. PC: Right. LRH: Very good.

Have you told me an untruth? All right. That's clean.

Or said something only to impress me? I'll check that again. Have you said something only to impress me?

Have you said something only to impress me? I haven't got any reaction on that. Your needle is banging around here . . .

TV DEMO: 39 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Oh. LRH: . . . so I have to check it a little bit. Would you care to answer it?

PC: I was thinking maybe that this overt on Robin I said, but it wasn't only to impress you. No, it wasn't. LRH: All right.

Good. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check it again.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? Now I am getting a kick on this.

PC: Oh, it wasn't only to impress you, but maybe I – it was a little bit to impress you. This overt on Robin, about writing him notes and stuff . . . LRH: All right.

PC: . . . like that. LRH: Okay. Thank you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? That's clean.

Or tried to damage anyone in this session? Thank you. That's clean.

Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Now what's the ping on that? PC: I was looking for that – that double tick.

LRH: Oh! PC: You know? LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Looking for the double tick that I had. LRH: Very good.

All right. I'll check that. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E- Meter?

I get a little tick on it still. PC: Well, I implied that I could influence, I suppose, to a certain extent, if I could “push the button.” I said I could “push the button” there and get a double tick. LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: You know, and that – if that was true, then I could push the button any time and get a double tick. LRH: Yeah. PC: Sort of push the button.

TV DEMO: 40 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right. PC: That wasn't true, you know. LRH: Okay.

All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Very improbable.

I will check it one more time. PC: Oh, I don't want it to read when – when I can't find anything to – to – for it to read on. LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: You see? LRH: All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter?

I haven't got a reading here . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... but subject seems to be kind of mucky.

PC: Well, I've kind of held my breath at times, hoping that I wouldn't get any read, or something on that. Read a body read or – I mean, it was silly, you know? I was sort of holding my breath or holding my body still and holding my hands still to make sure that the E-Meter doesn't read.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Good.

All right. PC: Hm. LRH: Okay.

Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Well, this is a bzz-bzz... PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: ... sort of question. It isn't reacting very hard, but there's something there. Feel you gave me a lose by making – I was trying to clean up this double tick, or . . .

PC: Something to do with that. No, not so much. LRH: ... or something like that?

Any feeling like that at all? PC: Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe – maybe I thought it at the moment when I said “What happened to the double tick?” LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And I thought, well, the double tick should have gone by now, you see? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: It cleared up with Gernie, then that was the end of the double tick.

TV DEMO: 41 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: Then it came back. LRH: Hm.

PC: And in a sense I felt I influenced the E-Meter, or something, to bring it back on, you know, like that. LRH: Hm. All right.

Okay. Now let me check this question again. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? That is clean. All right.

Have you failed to answer any question or command I have given you in this session? Thank you. That's clean.

Have you withheld anything from me? It's a trifle latent . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... but what is it? PC: I was thinking there was one just – there was one question that I may have failed to answer . . . LRH: What was that?

PC: ... much earlier, and I'm surprised it didn't react. I was thinking there was one, and it should have reacted. LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: Or something like that. LRH: All right, what question was it? PC: The one about “What about those meetings in between?” I never did find a meeting in between . . .

LRH: Oh, all right. PC: ...you see, those two. LRH: Thank you.

I'm sorry I asked the double question then. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? I got a reaction.

PC: I don't understand what you meant by double question. Or . . . LRH: I ask you a question, you answer it and I ask you another question.

I was just apologizing TV DEMO: 42 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: When was that? 1. . . LRH: Just a moment ago. PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. Let me check this . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... again. Hm? Have you withheld anything from me?

Well, this – this is greasy. This hasn't anything to do with it. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? There is not an instant read on this. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Well, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Yes, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Lot of things I'd like to talk to you about.

I – you know . . . LRH: Well, all right. Now, get the question here, now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me?

All right. It looks much cleaner. PC: Yeah.

There's a lot of things I – I don't tell you or talk about, or something like that. you know, sometimes I . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...I've withheld – I've withheld communicating to you how pleased I am to be on the course, and how – how – how . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... and how many gains I have got and how tremendous I think it is. That's all.

LRH: All right. PC: You know? LRH: Very good.

PC: But it's not an overt act. I'm trying to give overt acts that I've done and I've withheld, you know, or something like that. LRH: Oh, I see.

All right. Have you withheld anything from me? There's a slight needle change . . .

TV DEMO: 43 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Uh-huh. LRH: ... right there on the end of that. PC: Uh...

LRH: There it is. There it is. PC: Yeah.

All right. All right. This is very funny.

I – I got myself in the front – right at the front of the class . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... this week, under the assumption I was no longer an old – a new student – that I'm an old student.

Last week Herbie caught me in the third row from the back, in the first lecture, and I – here you know I – I kind of snuck up to the third row that first day . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ...you know.

He told me I could sit in back, you know . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... new student, next time.

Well, yesterday I got in the second row from the front . . . LRH: Uh-huh. PC: ... and no one caught me at it.

If – if now, as – a little games condition thing there, and I was just seeing if – if the second week, if you're still a new student, and – and if I wouldn't be (a) I wouldn't get caught at it or (b) I would – could argue my way out that I was a new student. LRH: All right. PC: And – or something like that.

Anyway, it's silly LRH: All right. Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? A halt as it goes, as it comes back up.

PC: Hm. LRH: There. PC: Hm.

LRH: There. What are you thinking about? PC: Well, I . . .

LRH: There. TV DEMO: 44 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I had an argument with – a little argument with Robin. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: ... about – after I took over the post. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And I . . . oh, I don't know, I didn't tell you about it.

LRH: All right. Very good. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me check this question on the meter.

Have you withheld anything from me? It's just a little roughness. Pretty clean.

Just a little roughness. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Hardly detectable.

A slowed rise. PC: I'm trying to differentiate between motivators and, you know, overt acts, and what's really a withhold, and what isn't, and, you know, I'm still a little confused on that. LRH: All right.

PC: And... LRH: Does that answer the question? PC: Yeah.

And I'm not sure what – what a withhold is at this point, in a sense, you see? LRH: Oh. PC: And...

LRH: I see. PC: Because it . . . LRH: I get you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Well, go ahead, if you want. PC: Well, it's just a “damage somebody, “you know ?

I mean, it's not – see, I'm confused. LRH: All right. TV DEMO: 45 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: You know, it's – it's that – that's – it's – it's – it's not a withhold, really, because I wouldn't mind telling you LRH: All right.

PC: You see? LRH: All right. PC: So I don't . . .

LRH: Very good. PC: ... but if I did tell you, it would be kind of a “damage”; then it would be an overt act, then it – you know, it would – the rudiments would go out. And then, you know, I'm a little confused on what's a withhold.

It's something I did. LRH: All right. PC: And I can't think of anything I did that I, you know, withheld from you.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Let me check the question again.

PC: Hm. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? Still get a reaction.

PC: Still get a reaction. LRH: There it is. PC: Right there.

LRH: There it is. PC: Well, I – I – I . . . LRH: There it is.

PC: Well, it's kind of an overt act now. I changed the franchise thing a – a little bit while I had the post. LRH: Hm.

PC: And it didn't really become an overt act until Robin got excited about it when he took over. LRH: Hm. PC: And then – then I – something happened.

LRH: Hm-m. TV DEMO: 46 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And I put in some – made franchises a little stiffer, you know, to get a franchise. LRH: Hm-m.

PC: And made co-audit centers beef it up a little bit to – you know, to get more information to them for people who didn't, I felt, deserve franchises or, you know, because they weren't working at it, you know? LRH: Hm-m. PC: To kind of give them a gradient to get up to a franchise.

Well, I withheld from you telling you that – that since Robin had taken over he's – he's switched it back and made franchise very easy to get, you know, and everything else. And I think that's wrong. And I withheld telling you that I think it's wrong LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: But it's none of my business anymore. LRH: All right.

PC: Huh. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. Let me check the question. Have you withheld anything from me?

Well, it's clean. PC: Yeah. Oh, is it?

LRH: All right. Okay. Look around here and tell me if you can have anything.

Thank you. Squeeze them cans. All right.

Squeeze the cans. All right. Put the cans up on the table.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Touch the table.

Now, we were running Feel, weren't we? PC: Yeah, well, same thing LRH: Does it mean anything PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.

Okay. Touch the table. Thank you.

Touch your chair. Thank you. Touch that.

Good. Thank you. Touch the table.

Good. Good. Touch the top of your head.

Good. Thank you. Touch the table.

Good. Touch your chair. Good.

All right. Pick up the cans. Okay.

Squeeze the cans. That's much better. Squeeze them again.

All right. We are going to let it go at that. Thank you.

All right. Made any part of your goals for this session? PC: I think so.

TV DEMO: 47 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. All right. PC: I think cleaning off this stuff on Jack will help me in Scientology – (a) in Scientology, help me in my – in studying.

LRH: Stay in PT while studying? All right. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Good. PC: And – what was my other goal? LRH: Sleep.

PC: Sleep? LRH: Sleep at night? PC: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no trouble. No trouble.

Won't have any trouble. LRH: You're postulating that, or do you – do you know? PC: No, I know.

I just know. LRH: All right. PC: I´ll just go to sleep easily.

LRH: You're not trying to make me look good? PC: No, no. LRH: All right.

PC: No. I – I just – I just feel better, and feel kind of tired, and feel like sleeping, instead of nervously tired. There's a difference.

LRH: All right. Okay. Okay.

PC: Yeah. I've been nervous. And I don't feel as nervous now.

LRH: All right. PC: So... LRH: I see.

All right. Well, have you made any other gains in this session you care to mention? PC: Cleaned up on Scientology.

LRH: All right. PC: Remembered a few things, that. . . LRH: Okay.

PC: ... didn't remember otherwise. TV DEMO: 48 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Anything else? PC: Hm . . .

I just feel more rested . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...you know.

I don't feel as frantic as I used to feel. LRH: Good. All right.

Thank you. PC: I got on television again. LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: It's a game. LRH: All right.

Okay. Is there anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? PC: No, but thank you.

LRH: All right. You're sure? PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check that. Anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? Thank you.

All right. You're all right, then, huh? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Is it all right with you if I end this session now? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right, here it is. End of session. Has the session ended for you?

PC: Yeah. Yeah, it has. LRH: Has it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good. Tell me I'm no longer auditing you. PC: You're no longer auditing me.

LRH: Thank you.

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