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We had an auditor given a list of five or six end rudiment-type Zero Questions to clean and every one of them was wildly alive at the end of the so-called session. Of course, the auditor is off auditing until he knows something about this. We had this trouble last September very bad.
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And that trouble consisted of people not thinking it was important to clean an E-Meter or people skimping over it or people just not able to read an E-Meter. And we had all this trouble in September, and there are a whole bunch of lectures on that subject as of about that period – having to lay it in with branding irons. Now, we're going to lay it in with branding irons this time.
LRH: We are going to give you a proper session, and we're going to do some fish and fumble there. PC: Okay. LRH: I told you just a moment ago, we're going to look for this tick-tick, and we're going to see if we can find this tick-tick, and find out what it was, because that had me mighty curious when I had you on the line.


We're going to start the thing this way: We're going to get rudiments checked by the auditors who are auditing, at the end of pcs' sessions; and then I'm going to ask the Auditing Supervisor to get one or two of those preclears after that auditing period and check their rudiments; and if their rudiments are found out, we put that auditor off auditing. I think that's only fair. I don't think you have a sufficient – that is, some of you, certainly – don't have a sufficient respect for the fact that you have to be able to read an E-Meter, that the E-Meter reads the pc and that it has to be cleaned up on a question.
PC: That was the one on – on that Prepcheck chain I went down. LRH: Yeah. PC: Hm.


And frankly, I'm very happy to find out about this. I'm more than delighted, because I've been looking at some of the gray faces that are creeping up and down the hall and let me tell you, I knew there was something awry here. And I've been nattering about it and talking with Mary Sue about it, and your Instructors, for some weeks now.
LRH: That's right. That was an interesting thing I actually did narrow it down to just that, and – since then. PC: Hm.


And, finally, we find out what it is: it's one more plague of not being able to read the E-Meter. Now, that's quite what it is. It's just a gross auditing error.
LRH: So we'll see if it's still there. PC: Great. LRH: Okay.


The grossest auditing error there is, is no auditing And next to that in rank is the inability to read the E-Meter. There are auditors which actually will believe the preclear but not the meter; they think the meter is registering something else. TV DEMO: 2  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE Now, we've got to reverse that thing You never believe the pc; you only believe the meter.
Is it all right with you if I begin this session now? PC: Yeah. LRH: Good.


We've got to get these things clean, and we'll get some auditing results going. Now, these results have been very poor in the last few weeks and I have been blowing my brains out trying to figure out why. And now I find out why: you're not reading E-Meters.
Start of session. Has the session started for you? PC: Yeah.


So there's a push on. And the demonstration tonight is – well, first and foremost – just so an Instructor in each room can call out the meter reads for you. And I want you to notice that there is some coordination between the question I ask and the pc and the meter.
Not really. LRH: All right. All right.


I know it's very hard to connect these, but there actually is a coordination. And you don't leave that pc, you understand, with that acting, and that's it. That's it.
Here it is. PC: Yeah. LRH: Start of session.


That is auditing. I mean, if I could lay it with a branding iron I would. But that is what you are doing That is your gross auditing error.
PC: Okay. TV DEMO: 2  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. What goals would you like to set for this session?


This is why, when you list, you are not blowing people to Clear. This is the whole story. The pcs are not in-session.
PC: To be able to get to sleep easier at night. I've been having trouble getting to sleep. LRH: All right.


The listing does no good because the rudiments are out. I mean, the whole chain of evil proceeds from that particular point. Now, actually, the first thing I'm going to do here is simply check some old What questions.
PC: The last few nights. And to . . . LRH: Good.


Now, the story of this particular pc is that some Prepchecking was set up and then I noticed the pc wasn't looking so good. So I had another auditor check all the What questions in order to make sure they were flat. Now, it was reported to me that all these What questions that the pc had been asked were flat.
PC: ... to stay in present time when I'm studying When I sort of run out of – get out of present time, find myself read ing over a paragraph of a bulletin or something like that without reading it. LRH: Okay. All right.


And now, I haven't gone over this, but in a nasty, evil, suspicious mood – you know, all Rons have two faces; one is good and the other is horrible; you realize that – in that nasty, suspicious mood, we are simply going to check this. This is not going to take very long. And then, after that, I'm going to give you a demonstration of fish and fumble.
Any other goals? PC: That ought to do it. LRH: All right.


That's not even a technical term, but I'm just going to show you how you fish and fumble around – what you actually can do with an E-Meter. I'm not even going to give you a very stylized demonstration of a session; it's just what you can do with an E-Meter. E-Meters work!
Got an ARC break there? All right, thank you. Any goals you'd like to set for life or livingness?


Every once in a while people don't think they work. And when that happens, pcs look grim and gray, and nobody goes Clear. It happened last September.
PC: I'd like to – well, I have a goal: it's – it's – it's an imp – almost impossible goal, but maybe it's possible, you know? LRH: Yeah? PC: To get Class II by the end of the month, or by the end of this period.


It's happened again here now. So, okay. Now, I'm in no militant mood, particularly, about this.
But, you know, it's getting pretty close there. LRH: All right. Anything else?


I simply want to drive it home with cannonballs. Okay? All right.
PC: I'd like to be auditing next week. Start auditing. LRH: All right.


Here we go. Have you got the right folder here? PC: It's me.
PC: Champing at the bit. I want to – like those – a little like those commandos who want to, you know, get out. LRH: All right.


LRH: Yes, yes, yes. This is the right folder. All right.
Okay, Fred. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. All right.


All right. Sit down. Now, don't faint and don't drop through the floor, Smokey, because . . .
Now, let's see. What process was working on you? It was Touch, wasn't it?


Push it forward. TV DEMO: 3  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: How did you guess? LRH: Pick up the cans.
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.


Now don't worry about it, because there's nothing very bad going to happen, it's not going to take very long, and I'm not going to reveal everything PC: Well, it'd be all right. LRH: Yes, it would be, wouldn't it? PC: Yeah.
Thank you. Put the cans down. All right.


He said the combination of the stairs and uh . . . Gosh! Are you sure you want me?
We're going to run a little bit of Touch here. All right. Touch that table.


LRH: Hm? PC: You know? LRH: You didn't believe it.
Thank you. Touch that wood. Thank you.


PC: No! LRH: Oh, I see. PC: I thought you wanted Wing You know, sometimes you get our names mixed up.
Touch that ashtray. Thank you. Touch that chair.


LRH: Yeah, I know I do. That's because he's the fire-eater, you know? I mean, he's the guy that goes to fires.
Thank you. Touch those cans. Good.


PC: Yeah. Eat 'em up. LRH: Anyhow, honey, I'm not going to do this in Model Session.
Give them a squeeze. Squeeze 'em. All right.


All I'm going to do here is simply check these What questions. And they are not very revelatory, but I want to see a few things are . . . PC: Well, they're funny.
Squeeze 'em. Hey, that's a difference! All right, thank you.


There's one on there that's really a ball. LRH: All right. PC: Wait till you see it.
All right. That's it. Now – check this on the meter.


LRH: Now, your . . . Well, I'll tell you the history of this. PC: Hm-hm.
Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. Thank you. Relatively clean.


LRH: I looked at you many weeks ago and I said, “She isn't doing so good.” you see? PC: Hm-hm. LRH: So I said, “Who's been prepchecking her?” and so forth.
PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 3  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Just a little slowdown; doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Feel better?


And then I had an auditor recheck all these What questions . . . PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 4  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: . . . just to make sure they were flat, you see?
PC: Yeah. LRH: Hey, what do you know? That was fast enough, wasn't it?


And then I took a look at you after he'd done so, and he said they were all flat. PC: Hm. LRH: See, he said they were all flat.
All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties? Thank you.


Yeah. I don't believe it. PC: Well, I didn't.
That's clean. Since the last time I audited you . . . PC: A lot of water's gone under the bridge.


LRH: See, I just think he wasn't reading the E-Meter. PC: Hm. LRH: Now, that's beside the point.
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? I have an action there. PC: Well, I – I – I – I got an overt against Robin, I guess.


But let's get back here. Here's your old CCH sessions – rattlety-bang of paper. PC: Yeah.
LRH: Okay. PC: I – I thought that was pretty clean. Anyway, when I – I left the – I left that post, I – I wrote a whole series of notes . . .


They're fun. LRH: Yeah. You had a lot of CCHs.
LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . explaining the job to ever – whoever. I – I addressed them to Franchise Secretary from Fred.


Now . . . PC: Wonder if that reads a heartbeat. LRH: We're just – I'm just examining your folder here, honey.
LRH: Hm. PC: Whole series of notes explaining the job, explaining various aspects, vari – you know, the various things I was working on. And I – I wasn't exactly sure Robin was going to come on the post, but I was pretty sure.


PC: Okay. LRH: There we are. And I think here is this horrible one that you probably…so forth.
And – but I thought it would be kind of funny if I – you know, it would be interesting, if I . . . LRH: All right. PC: . . . wrote these notes and told Robin how to do the job.


PC: That one. LRH: Not very bad. PC: It's not so horrible.
But anyway, it was kind of an overt on Robin. LRH: Okay. PC: It was.


It's just funny. LRH: All right, honey. PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Now, all I'm going to do is just check these questions. Okay? PC: All right.
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything you are withholding? Got a little tick there. PC: Well, it's uh – I uh . . .


LRH: All right. PC: You mean I'm on there? LRH: Huh?
LRH: That's it. PC: . . . this friend of mine – it's about this – this . . . Remember about – suspicions about that key and about . . .


PC: I'm on there? LRH: You're on there? PC: Yeah, I am on the meter over there?
TV DEMO: 4  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . this friend ? This is about that key.


LRH: Oh, yeah. Your meter is functioning fine. Perfect.
I – I never got in touch with him. I wrote him a letter . . . LRH: Hm-mm.


TV DEMO: 5  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: That's good. LRH: Yeah. Working fine.
PC: . . . saying, “Oh, you know, gee, I haven't seen you, and give me a call.” I got the letter back – no – n-n-not at – not at that address. LRH: All right. PC: You know?


PC: Terrible? Does it show my heartbeat? It's beating fast.
And I was, you know, wondering what – what happened. Something's – something's wrong there, you see? LRH: Hm-mm.


LRH: Well, I'm not even going to try to put you at ease particularly. PC: No. I'm fine.
PC: I have to check in . . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . because, (a) he wouldn't move without letting me know his new address.


LRH: All right. PC: Doing all right by my window. LRH: The question is, “What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom?” All right.
LRH: Hm. PC: Um – (b) I might have wrote it to the wrong address . . . LRH: Hm.


Let me check that. What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right.
PC: . . . but I – I – I don't think so. LRH: Mm-mm. PC: And something wrong there.


What about catching catfish? PC: You're reading my mind. LRH: No, I'm just trying to see what the needle pattern is here.
I have to look into that. LRH: All right. Very good.


What about catching catfish? What about catching catfish? What about . . .
All right. Let me check this on the meter. PC: Yeah.


I'm banging on something here, honey; I won't be able to check these things out. Tell me what it is. PC: Well, I just told you.
LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? Little tick, much smaller. PC: Yeah.


My heart was beating fast. LRH: All right. PC: Oh.
LRH: That's it. PC: I had a party at my place, and some girls over, and kind of a wild party. LRH: All right.


LRH: I didn't get that, huh? Was that it? PC: Well, I thought you did.
Okay. PC: I told you about that, I think . . . LRH: Yeah.


LRH: All right. Now, let me ask this test question again. What about catching catfish?
PC: . . . probably the group, you know . . . LRH: Okay. TV DEMO: 5  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . but not about that party.


You're getting a little bippity-bop here on the heart all right. PC: Nm-hm. Well, is it – is it my eyes too?
LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding?


LRH: But it's also my voice. No, no, no, it's not your eyes. What about your eyes?
That's cleaner than a wolf's tooth. Very good? PC: Yep.


Go ahead, swing your eyeballs from the left to the right. Swing . . . PC: Really?
LRH: All right. Do you have a present time problem? Thank you.


LRH: your eyeballs from the left to the right. All right. Swing them from the left to the right.
That's clean. Okay. Now, I told you about fishing around here.


Getting no significant read here. But there is something reading on this meter. PC: Oh.
PC: Yeah. LRH: And we're going to do some fish and fumble . . . PC: Hm-hm.


LRH: There is something . . . PC: It must be me. TV DEMO: 6  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: ... reading on here.
LRH: . . . see where we wind up here. And mysteriously, I have no tick-tick. PC: Well...


There must be some kind of a - I don't think it's you. Let's… PC: I think it was checked up all right. LRH: Let me check this.
LRH: Obviously, you're . . . What were you going to say? PC: I don't know.


PC: Um, um-um. LRH: Squeeze your cans. PC: All right.
It was on that chain, and it was on that past life, or connected u with it. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: Maybe if I found that again and I could – I don't know if it was that or something else, or what.


LRH: Squeeze your cans. No, it's just your havingness is out the bottom. PC: Yeah, that's true.
LRH: Well, that, you know . . . PC: It was something – it was something about messing with little girls . . . LRH: Yeah?


I know. LRH: All right. What's your Havingness Process?
PC: . . . you knows? LRH: Yeah. PC: Something – messing with little girls . . .


PC: Oh saints, I don't know. The last one that was used was “touching things.” LRH: Huh? Touching things.
LRH: There it is. There it is. There it is.


PC: Touch . . . Yeah. Hm-hm.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Ha-ha, ha-ha! PC: Uhh.


LRH: Anybody ever run reach on you? PC: No. LRH: Hm?
LRH: All right. Well, we didn't have to fish very long there, did we? PC: No.


Well, let's see if it works. All right. Squeeze the cans.
LRH: Something about messing with little girls. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 6  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: And just like that, we get it back.


Thank you. All right. Look around here and find something you could reach.
All right, let me check it now. PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay?


PC: Oh, I can reach that chair. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
What about messing with little girls? Well, that isn't quite the tick-tick. PC: No.


PC: Oh, I could reach that couch. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Now, let me see if we can get it just a little closer than that. There it is. What did you just think of?


PC: I could reach that picture. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
PC: Dang! I – I – I just look – kind of looked at a little something there, and kind of looked away. I can't – you know, sort of a hunk of something, you know?


PC: The curtain. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.
LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. PC: One of those gray hunks of something . . . LRH: That's right.


All right. That's doing exactly nothing PC: Uh-uh. LRH: All right.
PC: ... that don't have any definite . . . LRH: There it is again. PC: I – it looks like a – a rocket ship nose, or something, or – or a bomb nose, or something like this.


Okay? PC: Okay. LRH: Put your cans down.
I don't know. LRH: Yeah. PC: Is that it, or . . .


PC: All right. TV DEMO: 7  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right. Thank you.
LRH: Yeah. PC: ... or not? I . . .


Touch the table. Good. Touch the chair.
LRH: Well, let me check this over again. What about messing with little girls? Ahh, there – there's a tiny little slowdown there.


Good. Touch the table. Good.
PC: I looked at that thing again, when you mentioned it. LRH: Something here about messing with little girls in the nose of a rocket ship? PC: I – that's what the – I looked at that, and there was something connected there or someplace; I don't know what.


Touch the chair. Good. Touch the table.
LRH: Yeah. PC: But, you see, it . . . LRH: Yeah.


Good. Touch the chair. All right.
PC: It's a – it's kind of a, you know, what's happening here? You know? How come – how come this connects up like this or something like that, you know ?


Pick up the cans. All right. Squeeze the cans.
LRH: All right. Well, I'll find it. PC: Yeah.


All right. Just hold them loosely. PC: Okay.
TV DEMO: 7  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: I'll find it. Now – there it is! Who are you looking at?


LRH: That's all right. PC: They do kind of . . . Oh, I guess I´m big.
PC: Well, it – that was th-th-those two little girls that we talked about in that Prepchecking session that I . . . LRH: That's it. PC: ... those two twins.


LRH: All right. PC: There, now. LRH: Squeeze the cans.
LRH: Uh-huh. PC: They were either twins or – or sisters that I messed with . . . LRH: Uh-uh.


All right. Apparently – may be doing something PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Put the cans down.
PC: ... in – back in early – early days in my life. LRH: That's it. PC: I was ten years old, or so.


All right. Touch the table. Good.
And so . . . LRH: And we were going down that chain. PC: Yeah.


Touch the chair. Good. Touch the table.
Yeah. We kind of went past them, and . . . LRH: All right.


Good. Touch the chair. Good.
Let me see if I can get a What question that's right into the middle there. PC: Hm. LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls?


Touch the table. Good. Touch the chair.
That's it. PC: Is it? LRH: I get a tinier, smaller read.


Good. All right. Pick up the cans.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I might be able to vary that just a little bit. There it is.


All right. Squeeze them. All right.
What's that? PC: That's a picture of sexually interfering with a little girl. LRH: Yeah.


Hold them down in your lap . . . PC: Okay. LRH: . . . just like you were before.
PC: I don't think it's this lifetime. I mean, I don't know . . . LRH: Well, that doesn't matter.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
PC: Yeah. That's that sex pervert or . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


Okay. That's not your Havingness Process either. PC: Well, really, one hasn't been found on me.
PC: . . . probably a sex-pervert thing. But that's tied up with that other – that – that . . . Well, it – I – I think it's the same little girl as in that other picture I've had so many years, I looked at.


LRH: You have never had a Havingness Process found? PC: No. Sometimes “Point out something' works fairly fine.
LRH: What was that? The . . . PC: The one of having a little girl with her panties down, and with a – switching her.


Sometimes “Look around here and find something you could have.” LRH: Well, what's the variation? PC: Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. LRH: Have you ever invalidated a Havingness Process?
TV DEMO: 8  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And seeing – this picture is seeing an – an older man do this. Watching it from the bushes, something like this . . .


PC: Uh-uh. Oh, I like them. LRH: Hm?
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . in – in the yard of this . . . LRH: Right.


All right. PC: Oh, there was one I didn't like. LRH: What one?
PC: . . . place with . . . LRH: Right. PC: . . . a stream going by or something like that.


PC: Uh – “Something you could confront.”  TV DEMO: 8  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Hm? PC: “Something you would rather not confront. Something you could confront.” LRH: All right.
LRH: Right. PC: I've had that picture so long, you know? LRH: Hm-hm.


Good. Thank you. PC: I invalidated that one.
PC: And this – I'm not sure if it's the same girl or not. LRH: All right. Now, hold your cans still there and let me check it.


LRH: All right. Thank you very much. Squeeze the cans.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check another little What here. PC: Hm.


All right. Thank you. All right.
LRH: What about punishing little girls? Clean. PC: Hm.


Here's the first command. Look around here and find something you could confront. PC: That camera.
LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? It's not giving me the same read as the double tick. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront. PC: That thing up there in the corner.
LRH: There – what's that? PC: Switching little girls. LRH: What about switching little girls?


LRH: Okay. Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
That isn't it. PC: Eating little girls? LRH: Beating little girls?


PC: The fireplace. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront.
PC: Beating or eating? LRH: Eating PC: Eating little girls. TV DEMO: 9  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – the binoculars. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
What about eating little girls? Well, I get a something of a reaction there. What about eating little girls?


PC: That uh – sign on the door. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you'd rather not confront.
It cleaned. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.


PC: Those leases. LRH: All right. Okay.
Let me try another What question here. What about stealing little girls? I get an action here.


Squeeze the cans. Okay. Now, you've got a trick squeeze here.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You see, the reason I'm putting that together isn't a shot in the dark. you were talking about taking over a body before this lifetime. PC: Yeah.


PC: Mm. LRH: Now, you just put them down in your lap . . . PC: Mm.
LRH: See, and I was . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . getting a reaction on that.


LRH: ... the back of your hands in your lap. PC: Nm-hm. LRH: All right.
Now, what about taking over little girls? I don't get the same reaction. PC: Hm-hm.


Now squeeze them. PC: Okay? LRH: Okay.
LRH: What about stealing little girls? I get an instant read on that. What about stealing little girls?


Yeah. But you know, all I want is an even pressure down and up. PC: Hm-hm.
It's not the same instant read I'm fishing for, however. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: There it is.


LRH: You know? Just let them go. Do it again.
There it is. It was just for a minute and we went by it. PC: Boy, that's awfully fast, you know?


Mm-hm. PC: This okay? Hm?
It's – it's . . . Boy, it's something that's really occluded. LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


TV DEMO: 9  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Now, just hold them naturally. PC: Hm-hm. My hands are kind of hot.
PC: Ha! No – all around it, but I can't . . . LREI: All right.


LRH: That's all right. Doesn't matter. PC: Okay.
PC: . . . can't get to it. LRH: All right. PC: But I keep popping – keep thinking about – on the same line, I don't know if it's just jazz chat or what.


LRH: Now, squeeze the cans. All right. Let them go.
But some incident I ran – some past life incident, way back. LRH: Hm-mm. PC: Spaceship – just wound up taking over the . . .


All right, that's fine. All right. What do you think about this process?
Supposed to burn off this planet and save one city and rape the city, or something like that. LRH: What's this now? Take a . . .


PC: Well, it's all right. LRH: Well, are you just saying that? What do you think about this process?
PC: I – I – I. TV DEMO: 10  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . a burner . . . PC: Yeah, to burn off the whole planet.


PC: Well, I really could confront any of them, you see, that I see. LRH: Oh, I see. The whole thing is a bad answer, is that right?
LRH: Oh, you burnt off a whole – I got it. PC: Yeah, I was supposed to blow – burn the whole thing off, but I saved one city, and I raped the city before I burned it off LRH: Yeah. PC: And part of that was it – at least as I came up in – I don't know, it – hell, it picked them – I mean, it's just not . . .


PC: Yeah. It is. LRH: I get it.
LRH: Well, now there – there's the double tick. PC: Yeah? It's – I take – took all the – asked all the five-year-old girls in the – all the five-year-old blond little girls in the town into the palace, and raped them all.


All right. In other words, you could confront any of it? PC: Yeah.
LRH: Hm-hm. We're getting the tick-tick. PC: Yeah.


LRH: All right. And yet you're having to answer, so there's some missed auditing commands in that Havingness Process. Is that correct?
Huh! LRH: We did. PC: And then – did that and my – I ordered my men, or my men and I raped – raped all these little girls . . .


PC: It's possible, yeah. LRH: Huh? PC: Because, really . . .
LRH: Mm-m. There's your tick-tick. PC: . . . five-year-old girls.


LRH: Possible? PC: ...I could. Yes!
And then afterward, we burned the city off. LRH: All right. Let's see if I can make up a What here.


LRH: Well, is . . . PC: All right, it is. LRH: ... is it?
PC: Hm. LRH: What about raping a city? All right.


PC: Yes! LRH: All right. Go on.
What about raping little girls? What about raping little girls? No.


PC: Because I could confront the things that I say I'd rather not. It's . . . LRH: So you just had to make up answers for the “rather not”?
What about that auditing session? What about that auditing session that you ran that in? That's it.


PC: Hm-hm. Hm-hm. LRH: Well, that's very interesting.
There's a latent on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.


Very interesting  TV DEMO: 10  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm. LRH: When was that? PC: Wow, it must have been in January.
What auditor was that? PC: Think it was Stan. LRH: Who?


LRH: Quite a while ago? PC: Yeah. Quite a while ago.
PC: Stan Stromfeld. LRH: Yeah? PC: Think it was him.


When I first got here. About . . . LRH: All right.
Must have been him. LRH: Was it? I don't get a reaction here.


Okay. PC: ... the second or third week, I think. LRH: Good.
PC: No? TV DEMO: 11  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Was it Stan Stromfeld that ran that? I don't get any reaction on that.


All right. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Now, let's proceed with just the one side of it.
PC: I'll be darned. LRH: Somebody earlier than that? PC: Janine?


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you could confront.
No. Unless it was New York. Oh, maybe it was Doris.


PC: That wall. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Marge ? Damn. I don – I can't remember . . .


PC: You. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
LRH: All right. Let's put it together here. PC: ... who it was.


PC: Mirror. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Raping – past lives and . . . LRH: There – you got the – there's the ghost of a tick. PC: Denise?


PC: That chair. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
LRH: Yeah. There it is. Microscopically smaller.


PC: That camera. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Yeah, I know it. you . . . Something there. LRH: I just want to know what auditor it was.


PC: Curtain. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: ...I'm not sure. you know? I mean, I – I – I don't really get anything. LRH: All right.


PC: The ashtray. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Well, let me help you out, may I? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: That thing. LRH: All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
Was it a girl auditor? Was it a male auditor? Male auditor.


All right. Now, something very funny happens here . . . TV DEMO: 11  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Did it happen in the United States? Did it happen in Paris?


LRH: ...is the needle only comes halfway back. So, do you continue to grip the cans afterwards? PC: Well, now this is . . .
All right, did it happen in Paris? Now I've got a double tick. PC: Hm.


My hands kind of stick, you know? They're long and uh – the hands are a little bit wet . . . LRH: All right.
LRH: What are you thinking about? Happening in Paris? PC: Vincent?


PC: ... and so they cling. LRH: All right. PC: See?
Mario? Maybe it was Jack Campbell. LRH: All right.


LRH: I see. PC: And... LRH: I get it.
Was it Jack Campbell? PC: Maybe it was. LRH: All right.


PC: And they stay. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: You see, they don't uh – uh – be like they were before.
Was that auditor Jack Campbell? PC: Yeah, I guess it was. LRH: There's something here about it now.


LRH: Mm-hm. PC: They really don't. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm gettin . . . PC: Yeah, I guess it was. 'Cause he – he – he – he ran me on RT-3, think it was – OT 3.


Put them in your lap. Now, just lay them just lay them down in your lap. PC: Okay.
LRH: Yeah. TV DEMO: 12  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And it kind of went way back . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


LRH: All right. Good enough. Squeeze them.
PC: ... into a lot of stuff . . . LRH: Now we're getting a double tick here. PC: ... past life stuff.


Thank you. All right. Look around here and find something you could confront.
Yeah. There was that. LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – that thing, whatever it is. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
You remember this now? PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – the whole line of shelves there. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could confront.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay. And, now, did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?


PC: Uh – the top of that uh – curtain. LRH: All right. Good enough.
PC: Undoubtedly! No doubt. LRH: All right.


Squeeze the cans. All right. That is reducing the amount of squeeze.
PC: Yeah, I think he did. LRH: All right. All right.


PC: Hm. Really? LRH: Okay?
Okay. Let me check that on the meter. Did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?


TV DEMO: 12  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: I feel better. LRH: Yeah, I know you probably do. PC: Mm.
I get a reaction. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


LRH: But that's basically because you got an invalidation off, huh? Isn't it? Or is it?
Now . . . PC: It – it's like saying, did Jack Campbell ever and it you ? You know, I mean, it's like the same question.


PC: Mm. LRH: What is it? PC: Probably.
In fast, it was – it was funny. LRH: Now, we're taking off from that as a Zero question. PC: All right.


LRH: Yeah. Do you feel better about that? PC: Yeah.
Ooh. LRH: All right. PC: There must be something there?


Because I hadn't said that to anyone. LRH: All right. Good.
Line charge? Or something. LRH: Okay.


Now let's try this other one. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: The one I started with originally.
Now let me check out a possible One. PC: All right. LRH: Okay.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you could reach.
What did you successfully hide from Jack Campbell? All right, let me check that. Now let me check another one.


PC: The couch. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
What have you done to Jack Campbell? Well, we're going to take that first. PC: Yeah, it would be a good idea, I think.


PC: That door. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: Rightly or wrongly, we will take that first, because it'll flatten rather rapidly. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 13  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.


PC: The venetian blinds. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
We will test that now. We know that you have withheld from him. PC: Hm-hm.


PC: The telephone. LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you could reach.
LRH: All right. Would that be doing something to him? PC: The action of withholding from him?


PC: Uh – folder. LRH: Okay. Squeeze the cans.
LRH: Yeah, we actually are wrong here in phrasing this What question . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . but I'm just testing this thing Is there a specific overt?


All right. Now, have I missed a withhold on you? PC: No.
PC: Uh... LRH: I get a tick. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Ah, what did you just think of though? PC: I Just thought, my God, could he have? LRH: All right.
It – it's a kind of a – a specific overt, many times, in a sense, you know? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Well, the first overt, really, is that I considered that kind of – something was not quite right, or I didn't quite . . .


Okay. PC: But I think I've poured out all my . . . TV DEMO: 13  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Think you got all that taped, huh?
Well, when I first took the Communication Course in Paris, this . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . you know, in Scientology – the Scientology Communication Course – you take the Communication Course.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. All right.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I – I didn't have the money for the course, and I told him that – oh, I was – I – I knew he liked me. LRH: Hm-hm.


Now, this needle has become quite quiet compared to what it was. But it seems to me just a little sticky. PC: Oh.
PC: All right, I knew he and Gernie liked me, I knew they were interested in me, they liked my work in the theater, blah-blah-blah. LRH: Hm. PC: And so I said, “Well, I – I – well, I – I'm – gee, I'd like to take this course, Jack, but I – you know, I can't pay for it.


My goodness. LRH: But it's become quite quiet. PC: Mm-hm.
Don't have the money.” LRH: Hm. PC: Like that. Now, I might have been able to serape the money up if I had really – you know. you know, if he'd said, “Well, no, you go after the money and come and take the course.” LRH: All right.


LRH: Now, have you become upset about anything? PC: Well, I'm always upset. LRH: Well, have you become upset about anything in the last minute or two?
TV DEMO: 14  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: But he said – 'I don't have the money. I – I can't take this . . .” and he said, “All right. It's all right,” he said, “We – we want you to get the course.


PC: Oh, no. Don't think so. LRH: What do you mean, you're always upset?
You can pay me later. “I said, “Fine.” LRH: Well, tell me this now. Good. Tell me this now: Was that – the question we're on is doing something to him.


Go on, finish what you were telling me. PC: Well – well, you see, this is on TE And I – I feel really upset about it. But I feel better about it now.
Now, what specifically did you do to him there? PC: I kind of conned him into – I conned him into giving me the course for nothing You know? LRH: All right.


But, wow! LRH: It upset you? PC: Yes!
Good. You conned him into it. PC: Yeah.


LRH: All right. All right. Has anything bitten yet?
After – yeah . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... a fashion.


Anything bitten you? PC: You mean here? LRH: The TV camera suddenly blown a fuse?
LRH: That's it. All right. Now, what about conning Jack Campbell?


PC: Not a thing. That's – that's what's amazing. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah, that's a good What question. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.


Okay. Well, go on now. you want to say anything more about that? How about it?
That's a good What question. Very good. LRH: Good.


PC: No. It – uh – it just doesn't seem like it was. LRH: Doesn't seem so bad.
Well, that's the one we are going to work. PC: Yeah, it makes me sweat a little bit. LRH: All right.


PC: Uh – I seem – uh-uh. LRH: What did you think might happen? PC: Well, you know, it looks different from – when you're here than it does down there.
Very good. When was that? PC: Summer of 1968.


LRH: Doesn't it! PC: Yes. TV DEMO: 14  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Oh, I see.
LRH: Very good. Is that all there is to it? PC: Oh, I thought, well, if – you know, what do I have to lose here, you know?


Maybe you're running out some of the stuff that was . . . PC: Uh – it's possible. LRH: . . . left.
Nothing – nothing in this course, and, well, figured on paying him later on. LRH: All right. Good enough.


PC: Oh, like I would – oh, like I was afraid that you were going to have me up here last week. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: I breathed a sigh of relief I didn't even think of it this week.
All right. And what might have appeared there? PC: Well, I could have shake – shaken some money up from someplace, I think . . .


LRH: All right. You had a surprise. PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: All right. PC: ... to pay for it. LRH: Very good.


LRH: All right. Put your cans there in your lap. PC: In...
And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, Jack didn't. I – I – I – the fact I could have gotten the money someplace to pay for it, I think.


LRH: Yeah. Just – don't – just hold them with your . . . PC: All right.
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Very, very good.


LRH: . . . backs of your hands down. All right. Now, squeeze the cans.
Okay. When was that? Very specifically.


All right. We apparently are . . . Do it again.
TV DEMO: 15  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: July of – gee, the Moscow Art Theatre was in town. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I think it was the end of June.


Squeeze the cans. There's something real fluky here – what's happening I don't quite know what's going on, because this is not a proper can squeeze. PC: Uh-uh.
I think it was the end of June. End of June in 1968. LRH: All right.


LRH: It doesn't release. It simply falls and that's it. PC: Well, my hands do stick to the cans.
Good. And what else is there about this? PC: Well, I – I – I – I went on and took the course, and conned him again into giving me the HPA Course without paying for it over there.


LRH: Well now, are you giving a can squeeze because more skin touches the can? Bring your hands up here on the table. Let's see . . .
LRH: All right. Okay. And what didn't appear there?


PC: Yes, I guess. LRH: . . . what this is all about. Now, is that can fitted snugly down there?
PC: Fifty thousand francs for the HPA Course. LRH: Oh-ho-ho, I see. PC: Still hasn't appeared.


PC: Yeah. LRH: Huh? PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: All right. And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, the – the people who I owed money to didn't find out that I was spending more money or, you know . . .


LRH: Now, I don't want more palm against the can. I just want . . . PC: Oh, it's nice and fitting.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... putting myself into more debt . . . LRH: I see.


TV DEMO: 15  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Why don't you just squeeze it between there and there. Now, we're going – I'm going to squeeze it for you. PC: Oh, there.
PC: ... in a sense. LRH: All right. PC: Kind of a little bit of an overt against them.


LRH: Oh, there! PC: All right. LRH: Yes, there's something going on here.
Very funny. LRH: What? PC: Just getting more debts without paying them off LRH: I see.


All right. There's no can squeeze there at all. You're just pushing more . . .
PC: You know, something like that. LRH: All right. Very good.


Yes. You were just pushing more – I suppose that was invisible on the meter, but . . . Go on, squeeze it between there and there like I showed you.
Very good. All right. Now, let's test this What question.


Well, how do you like . . . PC: I didn't feel the can squeeze. LRH: Yeah, so that's it.
PC: Hm. LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? Have to test it again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


But you're – what you were doing before was wrapping more hand around the can. PC: Hm. Could be.
That seems to have a tiny little bit of reaction on it. Let me ask you this. Is there any earlier moment there?


LRH: Yeah. Well, then, it wasn't releasing PC: No. It just stayed.
Is there anything earlier, before that Comm Course? What's that? PC: Yeah, had coffee or something with Jack and Gernie...


LRH: That's all right. But that's because the only fall we were getting on you was because more skin is touching the can. Not because of . . .
LRH: Yeah? TV DEMO: 16  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . and – I – Jack paid for the coffee or the drink or something – earlier, when I first met him. And I kind of conned him there a little bit. you know, he paid for the drink.


PC: I'm a terrible – uh – I'm a terrible havingness case. LRH: Hm? Yes.
LRH: All right. Well, when was that? PC: Was after a play.


This havingness thing is fascinating here. PC: Mm! Fascinates me, too.
It – it was – well, it must have been after a – it must have been that spring, along in March or something like that. LRH: Get a tick-tick. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Well, what goes on here? PC: Low havingness perhaps. LRH: Yes!
In March . . . LRH: Yeah. All right.


This I will agree with. PC: Mm-mm. LRH: But what's that?
Good enough. PC: . . . that year. Yeah.


PC: Well, now . . . LRH: What's your idea of this? Go ahead and tell me.
LRH: All right. What else is there to that? PC: I just – that was the first time I saw him.


Go on. PC: Well, you know, I don't have any idea of it at all. I just know that I did have a – a – a havingness thing.
That night. LRH: That's the first time you ever saw him? PC: Yeah.


You see? LRH: Mm-hm. TV DEMO: 16  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm.
LRH: Yeah. Bang PC: Yeah. Gernie invited me for a drink after an American Embassy Little Theatre group . . .


And I still do. LRH: Hm! How do you account for this?
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . production. LRH: All right.


PC: I haven't the faintest idea. you know, people are like that. LRH: You know that . . . All right.
PC: I'm not sure if it was hers or somebody else's. And – with her and Jack, and I saw this character first appear. LRH: All right.


All right, honey. Okay. Well, this is an activity I didn't expect to get into here.
Okay. And what might have appeared there? PC: Hm.


Squeeze the cans like that again. PC: That's what I was afraid of too, you see? LRH: Yeah, but that's all right.
Well, I don't know. A couple of hundred francs from my pocket, I guess, to pay for the drinks, could have appeared. LRH: All right.


PC: All right. LRH: Squeeze the cans again. No, I mean it's a darn good thing I started checking up on this.
All right. PC: I think I was broke, or something, and I had to con him. you know, I couldn't pay the drink. I don't think I had any money on me, or something like this.


PC: Why? LRH: Because if you'd ever had an auditor, he would have straightened it up. PC: Well, I've had a lot of auditors.
It was funny. LRH: All right. Very good. who didn't find out about it?


LRH: I don't think so. PC: I've had six. LRH: Nobody has straightened up your Havingness Process.
PC: Well Jack and – Jack and Gernie didn't. LRH: All right. Very good.


PC: Well, maybe I don't look like a havingness case. I mean, you know, I might not. LRH: I'm not invalidating your auditor.
Very good. All right. Let me test this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


I wouldn't do that in a normal session. But you're not in a Model Session. PC: No.
Still got an action. Did you meet him any earlier than that? TV DEMO: 17  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Not that I know of LRH: Ah-ah-ah.


LRH: I was just slapping some people's ears. Put your cans down. PC: All right.
PC: Yeah? LRH: You meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? PC: Man, I don't remember if I do.


LRH: All right. PC: My ears just got red. LRH: Come on, I wasn't slapping your ears; I was slapping their ears.
LRH: Come on, come on, come on. Did you meet him earlier than that? I got a reaction here.


Now, look-a-here. Touch your ears. PC: Hm-hm.
PC: No. LRH: Let me test this very carefully, before I send you off on a wild-goose chase. PC: Yeah.


LRH: Thank you. Touch the top of your head. PC: Hm-hm.
LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? You've got a reaction here, man.


LRH: Thank you. Touch your chest. TV DEMO: 17  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Ha!
PC: I'll be darned. Jack Campbell earlier. LRH: Yes, Jack Campbell earlier.


LRH: Good. Touch your stomach. PC: Yep.
PC: I knew Gernie before I knew Jack. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: The first I remember Gernie is meeting her after one of my productions there.


LRH: All right. Touch your shoulders. Good.
LRH: All right. PC: And, I heard about Jack. Damn!


Touch your stomach. Good. Touch the top of your head.
Or something, and I was kind of curious about him. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And...


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Thank you. Good.
LRH: What are you plowing around with there? You got a double tick. PC: Yeah.


Touch the end of your nose. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Good.
It was meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... after that production . . .


Touch your stomach. Good. Touch your shoulders.
LRH: Right. PC: ... in – in – in the foyer of the . . . LRH: All right.


All right. Thank you. Pick up the cans.
PC: ... American Students and Artists Center . . . LRH: Hm-hm.


All right. Squeeze them. PC: Better?
TV DEMO: 18  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: ... and – this – there's some unknown there. I can't remember about this – that . . . Something . . .


LRH: Do it again. That's all right. All right.
I – I wondered where Jack was, or something like this. I'd never met him, you see? LRH: Hm-hm.


Mm-hm! PC: Maybe I'm not very strong. LRH: Oh, that's all right.
PC: But I wondered where Jack was . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... or something.


I'm not going to worry about this. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.
You know? I mean, there's – there's something like that. LRH: Hm-hm.


Once more we're going to try out this reach thing PC: All right. LRH: But we're going to try it out in negative. PC: All right.
PC: This – about all I got. LRH: All right. Just experimentally, was there a desire to withhold yourself from meeting Jack?


LRH: All right. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That door.
No. All right. Let me check this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: All right. Good enough. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: I'm not reaching the window.
Still reacts. PC: I intended on meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Good.


LRH: Good. Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: Uh – that light switch. LRH: Good.
PC: ... I intended to get – get her interested in my theater project. LRH: Ah!


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: The ceiling. LRH: Good.
PC: And maybe that's conning Jack a little bit, by getting Gernie interested. LRH: All right. PC: Inadvertently conning Jack – conning Gernie into – into getting her to back my theater project.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: Oh, that weigher. TV DEMO: 18  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
LRH: All right. PC: Because I heard she was important, you know . . . LRH: All right.


Now, how do you feel on this – for a minute? PC: All right. LRH: Does that make you feel strange?
PC: ... she had connections . . . LRH: Now we got little tick-tick. Yeah.


PC: Uh – no. I just started feeling here and it's sort of echoish. LRH: Oh, all right.
PC: ... and money, and – yeah – money and connections, and . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... may – maybe it's kind of overt against Jack, and conning him too, or something.


Good. Squeeze the cans. Oh, I think it's a tiny bit increased.
LRH: Well, you don't have to add it up to him. Were you trying . . . PC: Yeah.


PC: Oh. LRH: Has it annoyed you? PC: My space is kind of small.
LRH: ... to con Gernie? TV DEMO: 19  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. LRH: Hm?


LRH: Huh? PC: My space is kind of small. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah.


But has it annoyed you that these Havingness Processes were all grab-out- at-something, grab-out-at something, or something like that? PC: Uh – possibly. LRH: Well, has it or hasn't it?
LRH: All right. Now is there a missed withhold right there at that meeting? PC: First meeting with Jack?


Don't try to be obliging, just tell me. PC: Well, it was uh ... Well, sometimes things would be too far away, yes.
Yeah. LRH: No. With Gernie.


Hm-hm. LRH: And you sort of felt like you couldn't reach it. Well, answer this question: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
PC: Gernie. LRH: There a missed withhold there with Gernie? What would it be?


PC: I don't think so. LRH: All right. I will check that.
What didn't she find out about? PC: On me? Gee, I don't know.


Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command? I'm not getting a direct response on that. PC: Oh, I don't think I have failed to.
That – well, the first I – when I first met her, I – I didn't – here was this big, fat woman here, you know? LRH: Oh, I see. PC: Yeah.


I might have had difficulty answering them. LRH: All right. Let me check that . . .
And – but – had a lot of – pretty alive, you know? Gernie is pretty alive. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: The last uh – time I ran uh – Notice – Notice! That was a good one.... LRH: Yeah.
PC: She – and she was interested in – in – in me because she had seen the production and liked it. And I didn't know who she was. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Uh – the auditor had me notice things that were small and close, you see? And that helped, to me. LRH: I see.
PC: She – very nice talking, and gets – I got some admiration there, and stuff like this. . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . you know, it was nice.


All right. All right. Well, we got this . . .
LRH: Well, have you answered the auditing question there? Is there a missed withhold from Gernie? I haven't got a reaction on it.


PC: He started on a gradient scale, you know? LRH: All right. PC: It worked.
PC: No, I – I – I can't think of any. LRH: All right. Now, let me test this What question again, huh?


TV DEMO: 19  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Now, just for fun . . . PC: Mm. LRH: . . . let's run a few more of these negative commands.
PC: Hm. LRH: All right. What about conning Jack?


PC: All right. LRH: Okay? PC: I like them.
Now, we've still got a little tick here. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


LRH: Squeeze the cans. All right. Thank you.
Did you meet Jack Campbell – coming back to one we had before . . . PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 20  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That nail. LRH: Good.
All right. Let me ask you once more. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That rug. LRH: Good.
I'm not getting a reaction on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Ill – Ill say it once more, because you're getting dives here.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching. PC: That chair. LRH: Good.
PC: Hm. LRH: Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? No, that's clean.


Look around here and find something you aren't reaching PC: The top of that uh – shelf. LRH: Good. All right.
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Now, is there a meeting between that first meeting with Gernie and what you were saying was the first meeting with Jack . . .


Squeeze the cans. All right. That's reducing the can swing . . .
PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . when he bought the drinks? PC: The meeting with Gernie?


PC: Oh. Well . . . LRH: . . . as you could expect it to.
Between that time? LRH: Yeah, well, is that – is . . . Yeah, yeah.


What? PC: I uh – almost said I wasn't reaching you but I found out I was, so I didn't. LRH: All right.
Is there a second meeting with Gernie before you met Jack? PC: Gee, I sure got it occluded if there is. There must – I . . .


Okay. You suppressed . . . PC: Mm.
LRH: Uh-huh. PC: . . . yeah, there must have been. There must have been.


LRH: All right. Okay. Now, let's now check out this Notice, hm?
LRH: Uh-huh. We got a . . . PC: Must have been.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. Notice that ashtray.
LRH: The double action is on there. PC: Yeah. Funny, I've a little charge, too.


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Okay. Notice that wood.
LRH: What goes on here? PC: Gee. I'm just trying to think of what it was.


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Good. Notice that telephone.
LRH: All right. Good. Good.


PC: Mm-hm. TV DEMO: 20  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Good. Notice that ceiling PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Yeah. You know, it must have been, because by the time I met Jack, Gernie and I were already good friends, you know, there . . . LRH: All right.


LRH: Good. Notice that flower. PC: Yes.
All right. PC: Wonder what happened in there. LRH: Yeah.


LRH: Good. Notice that necklace. PC: Mm-hm.
All right. When might that have been? PC: March?


LRH: Good. Notice that E-Meter. PC: Mm-hm.
Well, yes. I first met her, right . . . God, 58.


LRH: Good. Notice that lamp. PC: Yes.
What was that, Streetcar Named Desire? TV DEMO: 21  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm? PC: Yeah.


LRH: Good. Notice that button. PC: Mm-hm.
Streetcar Named Desire. I first met her then, when – when she was – it must have been after Street – no, it must hare been sooner than Streetcar. Man, I've got so much confusion through this period, you know?


LRH: Good. Notice that pencil. PC: Yeah.
LRH: Interesting. PC: It's interesting. LRH: All right.


LRH: Good. Notice that pencil. PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Uh... LRH: Okay. Well, how can I help you out there?


LRH: Good. Thank you. Squeeze the cans.
PC: Well, I – I – I – I'm not sure what you – what to look for now. I kind of got lost off of that . . . LRH: All right.


Well, it's possibly coming up just a little bit more. PC: Mm. LRH: Squeeze them again.
Now, I asked you if there was a meeting . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... with Gernie, before you – from that – between that first meeting . . .


All right. All right. I don't like the reaction of that . . .
PC: Yeah. LRH: ... and when you met Jack. I was asking you . . .


PC: I'm ruining it. LRH: . . . process particularly. Hm?
PC: Yeah, there must have been several of them. LRH: ... when was that period? PC: Yeah.


PC: I'm ruining the demonstration. LRH: Are you worried about that? I'm not . . .
I can't remember when I first met Gernie. LRH: That's it. PC: Do you follow?


PC: A little bit, yeah. LRH: . . . worried about that. What are you worried about it for?
LRH: That's it. We haven't got the first meeting spotted, have we? PC: Yeah.


Well, come on, what are you worried about it for? PC: Well, I just – I did. TV DEMO: 21  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
LRH: All right. Well, when might it have been? PC: I – it seems to me it was after Waiting for Godot.


Don't worry about that. No, I'm quite interested here. I'm quite interested here.
I – I – after I did that production. And that was in – sp – well, spring of 57. Yeah.


I'm looking for a bug on the subject of havingness. PC: Mm. LRH: I'm looking for a bug of some kind or another . . .
LRH: We're getting a bit of reaction there. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . on the subject of havingness. Here's the way you check into one of those things, for your own information.
Is that all there is to that meeting now? PC: Yeah. You mean that meeting with Gernie?


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command? I got a reaction that time.
LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. Far as – yeah.


PC: Did you? LRH: You ever fail to answer a Havingness command? I got a reaction that time.
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Far as I know. LRH: All right.


PC: Hm. Um – I did once, but I answered it later, because I told him. LRH: All right.
What didn't appear there? PC: Well, Jack didn't. LRH: All right.


Okay. PC: Yeah. LRH: Thank you.
Okay. Did you particularly want him to appear on that scene? PC: No, I didn't even know about him existing, you see, at that – at that point, really.


Let me check that on the meter. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
LRH: Oh, you didn't know he existed at all? PC: No. LRH: All right.


All right. You got a rather heavily swinging needle here. I'll have to check it again.
Very good. All right. And who didn't find out about that first meeting?


Okay? PC: All right. LRH: Have you ever failed to answer a Havingness command?
I got a reaction. PC: Oh, the – yeah, the – the people that ran the American Students and Artists Center didn't find out about that. LRH: Oh, yeah.


All right. That's clean. PC: Yeah.
All right. Very good. PC: 'Cause they were supporting me, they were behind me, and it was kind of – I don't know.


I usually try. I – I – I like that, you see? I like the Havingness Processes.
LRH: Well? PC: I was – l was getting support from other people too. Confused.


LRH: An right. PC: And uh . . . I don't think I've failed to answer.
I was, you know, very confused there. LRH: Well, all right. Now we're getting onto something interesting While they were supporting you, were you looking for support from other people?


LRH: Okay. Now, have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? PC: I don't think so.
PC: Yeah, for my – well, not really. But I felt kind of guilty about – people would off – or something. You know, I'd – I'd get admiration and stuff like this.


LRH: Ouhh, man, we've got a nice fall here. PC: It scares me though to think about it. LRH: Yes.
I was becoming an independent figure, you see? LRH: I see. PC: Kind of like this.


We've got a nice fall here. PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: I'll ask that again.
LRH: I see. PC: In a sense. LRH: All right.


Have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? There's something here. PC: Hm.
Good enough. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check this over now.


LRH: That was . . . PC: Let's see now. LRH: Well, what was that?
Another What question here incidental, just to be checked. TV DEMO: 23  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie?


PC: Hm. LRH: What's that? What are you thinking about right there?
Now there's a double tick on these meetings with Gernie. PC: They're certainly occluded, in through here. LRH: There it is.


What's that? PC: Oh – oh, by-y-y-y golly, I got sidetracked there. LRH: What were you thinking about?
PC: There's a year . . . LRH: There it is. PC: See, there's a year going through there . . .


You say you got sidetracked, but what did you think about at that point? PC: Yeah. LRH: Come on.
LRH: All right. PC: . . . about that. LRH: Hm.


That's it. PC: I´m sure I must have. LRH: Must have what?
PC: You know. LRH: I'm going to put that down as a . . . PC: Boy, I sure had trouble with Gernie later on, so there must be – there must be something in there.


PC: Failed . . . Oh. . . LRH: Yeah, go on.
LRH: Yeah? You do something to her? PC: Yeah.


Have you . . . PC: And... LRH: ... ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc?
LRH: What? PC: Oh – I – later on there, I fought with her, you know? LRH: All right.


There's something in this. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.
PC: Fought with her . . . LRH: Did you do something to her specifically? We got a tick.


What is it? PC: Well, I'm sure I did. you found it. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah. I – yeah, one time she wanted to – she wanted to come and have supper with me. I told her no, I was going to go with some other people.


Thank you. I will check it. PC: Yeah.
LRH: Hm-km. PC: I – I – you know, kind of pushed her away. LRH: You what?


LRH: Have you ever failed to find a Havingness Process on a pc? PC: Yeah, I must have. LRH: That's latent now.
PC: I kind of repulsed her. LRH: All right. PC: Repulsed her and . . .


PC: Yeah. Well, I'm sure I did. LRH: You're sure you did.
TV DEMO: 24  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Well, let me ask this question: What about refusing Gernie? No, that isn't live. It isn't quite right.


TV DEMO: 23  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Yeah. LRH: Thank you. All right.
What would you do to Gernie? You repulsed her, then. PC: That time.


Let me ask this question: What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? PC: Goodness' sakes. Oh, it was a “Point out.” LRH: Hm?
Yeah. LRH: Well, when was that? PC: Was quite a bit later.


PC: It was “Point out something,” l think . . LRH: Hm-hm. All right.
This – I was back . . . LRH: Well, when was it? PC: Nineteen – Jesus – Sixty.


PC: . . . on someone. LRH: Thank you. Let me check that.
Spring of 60. LRH: All right. Very good.


PC: All right. LRH: What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? Well, I got . . .
PC: March of 60. LRH: Is that all there is to it? PC: Well, there's other stuff during that incident.


PC: It must have been “Point out something.” LRH: I get a wobbly needle on that. What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? I've got a reaction on that still.
She was producing; I was directing a production there. LRH: Ah. You were working with her.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me ask you this question . . .
PC: Yeah, working together. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: Long time.


PC: I uh – it was the thirty-six ones, I think. LRH: Hm? PC: You know, the thirty-six Presessions.
LRH: Good. All right. And what didn't appear there?


LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah. That was what it was.
PC: In that particular instance there of repulsing her? Well, some friendliness on my part didn't appear. LRH: All right.


Hm? LRH: Hm-hm. All right.
Very good. And who didn't find out about it? PC: Well, Gernie didn't, really.


Let me check that again. What Havingness Process did you fail to find on a pc? That's still live.
LRH: Okay. Thank you. PC: Yeah.


PC: Still. LRH: What are you thinking about when you hit that? PC: Well, it – it was one where you have a can between. “Point out something.” LRH: Mm-hm.
LRH: Let me ask you a couple of just leading questions here, could I? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is there any affair – is there any affair with Gernie?


PC: That was the one. LRH: All right. Let me ask you this question.
Is there any refusal to have an affair with Gernie? PC: Yeah. Not – do you mean love affair?


TV DEMO: 24  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Mm-hm. LRH: What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? PC: I think it was my son.
Or . . . LRH: Yeah, I don't care. PC: Yeah.


I don't know. LRH: All right. PC: Seems like it must have been.
It was never – it was – it was neither way, you know? It was – we got together one time and – on this American Theatre Association thing, and she said, “Fred,” she said, “I'd help you, but I want something out of it.”  TV DEMO: 25  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And I – at that time I – I – I – I wondered – I had the consideration that, well, people should help me because they should help me, you know?


LRH: There's a steep fall here. PC: Well, it must have been him. you know, undoubtedly. LRH: Why?
Not because they want something out of me. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: You know ?


Why undoubtedly? You don't remember this . . . PC: Because that's the one I was thinking of.
Very . . . LRH: All right. We're on the double-tick line.


LRH: Oh, all right. All right. I´ll check that.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Go on. PC: Yeah.


PC: Mm. LRH: What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? All right, that's still dirty.
And that – that I deserve to be helped. You know? LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Still dirty. LRH: Not dirty, by the way, just falling PC: Oh. LRH: It still reacts, however.
PC: I – I – and I don't – I don't need to give anything in return. LRH: Ah. PC: Except my – my “contribution of art to the world, “you know?


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Let me ask you the question again. Now what pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on?
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Or something like that – some jazz like that. I'm important enough, and I´m – you know, I should be helped and not be bothered about things like this, and what have you.


PC: I guess that was Carl. Probably. LRH: Who?
I – I kind of left her with a maybe on that whole thing. LRH: What did she mean by, she expected something out of it? What do you think she meant?


PC: Carl. LRH: Carl. PC: Hm-hm.
PC: Well, she – she expected to direct a play now and then, when she wanted to, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . enter in artistically into the thing And I wasn't interested in letting her do this.


LRH: All right. Okay. PC: Hm-hm.
I didn't consider her capable at the time of . . . LRH: Did she ever find out about this? PC: She never found out about that, no.


LRH: All right. Thank you. Let me check that.
LRH: Oh. Is there a consistent withhold here on the subject of her capability? PC: There certainly is, yeah.


What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? All right. That's clean.
Certainly is. Certainly is. All through – all through our relationship.


PC: No kidding It was Carl. Hm! TV DEMO: 25  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right.
Kind of culminating up into producing this play . . . LRH: Hm. PC: ... together.


All right. PC: That's true, too. LRH: It's true?
TV DEMO: 26  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: I found out, in working together, that she was very capable. LRH: Oh, I see.


PC: Yeah. That's the one. LRH: Hm?
PC: Before that – you know. LRH: You had an opinion through that period? PC: Yeah.


All right. Very good. All right.
Yeah. LRH: All right. She didn't find out about this at any time?


Squeeze the cans. All right. Now, let me ask something here out of my just out of curiosity here.
PC: No. LRH: Did Jack ever find out about this? PC: No.


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You were sort of waiting for the meter to tell you whether that was right or wrong. What was this all about?
LRH: Might Jack have found out about this when he was auditing you? PC: Yeah, he might have, if he'd . . . LRH: All right.


Didn't you really remember that yourself? PC: Not until I told it to you. LRH: Oh, yeah.
PC: ... asked me. LRH: Is there anything else about Gernie that Jack might have found out about? That's it.


PC: Not Carl. LRH: All right. PC: I knew there was someone, and the thirty-six Presessions and then this thing between the cans.
PC: I – I had a feeling she was interested in me as a man, you see, sexually. LRH: I see. PC: I couldn't – you know.


LRH: All right. You do remember – you do remember doing this? PC: Yes.
I wouldn't want Jack to know that, that I kind of got the idea from her. Not through any really terribly overt – kind of covertly, I mean. LRH: I see.


LRH: Yeah. All right. PC: Definitely.
PC: And I wouldn't want Jack to know about that. LRH: All right. All right.


LRH: Good. All right. Let me check this once more to make sure we get out from underneath the thing PC: Mm-hm.
Now let me disentangle . . . PC: Yes. LRH: ... all of this a little bit here.


LRH: All right. What pc did you fail to find a Havingness Process on? I get nothing on that now.
PC: Right. LRH: And let me ask that question again, check it on the meter. PC: Hm-hm.


PC: Mm, it was Carl. LRH: All right. Okay.
LRH: Might Jack have found out something about you and Gernie when he was auditing you? Getting a little action on this. PC: Seems to be something else.


Now let's see what luck we have here. PC: All right. LRH: All right.
LRH: It's what something else? TV DEMO: 27  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: He might have found something else out – something else about me and Gernie, beside what I said. LRH: Something else . . .


Squeeze the cans. All right. Thank you.
PC: Yeah. LRH: ... than this capability thing PC: Yeah. LRH: Was there anything else to find out?


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: That hanger. TV DEMO: 26  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Good.
Got a reaction. PC: I didn't like her! LRH: All right.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: Uh – the couch. LRH: Good.
All right. PC: I didn't like her. LRH: Good.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: Uh – that uh – connecting thing. LRH: Good.
Well, might he have practically blown your head off if he'd fount out about your opinions with Gernie? What do you think? Something going on here.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: I could reach that camera. LRH: Good.
PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. PC: Yeah.


Look around here and find something you could reach. PC: The camera holder. LRH: All right.
I – I – I don't know – I – my considerations at the time or my considerations now? LRH: Your considerations at the time. PC: At the time.


Thank you. Okay. Squeeze the cans.
Well, you know, I – he might have – he might not have liked me, or something like that. But that's the missed withhold. LRH: All right.


PC: Did I do it right? LRH: Put those backs of your hands on the table here. PC: Hm-hm.
Very good. All right. Let me check this lineup now.


LRH: Now put the backs of your hands – now, put your hands up to where I can get them here because I don't want to cover up the dial. PC: All right. There's my fingers.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay? What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: All right. Now just hold them relaxedly. PC: Mm.
Got a reaction. PC: Hm. LRH: Instant reaction.


LRH: Man, there's certainly very little drop here, let me tell you, man. All right. Now, I'll tell you something PC: Hm-hm.
PC: Hm. LRH: But it's not now the dirty needle reaction. PC: Yeah.


LRH: I'll tell you something Is there something that you consistently want that you can't have? PC: Sure. LRH: Well, what is it?
I mean, there are some other times when I conned him, kind of LRH: Oh, just give me a rapid rundown. What's the relationship here? PC: Well, I – I – I got some books from him and never paid him for the books.


PC: Uh – a lot of motion. LRH: Hm? A lot of . . .
LRH: All right. Good. Thank you.


PC: Motion. LRH: A lot of motion. PC: Mm-hm.
Any other one? PC: Oh, I – I – I was going to trade twenty-five hours of auditing with him. TV DEMO: 28  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-m.


TV DEMO: 27  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: And you don't think you can have this? PC: Uh-uh. LRH: Well, all right.
PC: That's – that was a con, because he was a better auditor than I was. LRH: All right. Okay.


All right. Okay. I get a little reaction on this.
PC: Actually I got twelve and a half. LRH: Good. Good.


PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Is there anything else you consistently want that you can't have?
PC: Uh... LRH: Any others? PC: Can't think of any right now.


PC: No, I don't think so. LRH: All right. PC: Well, I'd like to be a – a real excellent auditor.
LRH: All right. What? PC: No, it's a motivator.


LRH: All right. PC: That I would like. But, you know, that – that I can come to in my own slow way.
LRH: Well, that's all right. What's the motivator? Perfectly all right with me.


LRH: All right. Now, let me ask you this question again just to check it on the meter. Okay?
PC: Yeah. Well, there's – there was – there was some confusion with him about when I was on the course – when he came on the ACC over here. That's . . .


PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Is there anything you consistently want that you can't have? No, that's quiet now.
LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . when he was a student on an ACC. He and Vincent came over here.


PC: Yeah. LRH: It's sensitivity. PC: Just those two things.
And – well, no, there – th-th-th-th-there's an overt in there. Yeah. LRH: Yeah, that's what I was going to just ask for, but you saved me the trouble.


LRH: All right. I'll check it again. Is there anything you consistently want that you can't have?
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. What's the overt?


No, that's clean. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: All right.
PC: There's an overt in there. He left Mario and myself to teach the course there. Mm?


Very good. Okay, honey. Now, we're not going to fool with this anymore . . .
LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And we were supposed to work together in teaching the course. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Mm. LRH: ... as a Havingness Process. But I'm going to recommend that we just do a standard job now of trying to find a Havingness Process on you.
PC: But Mario went on a concert tour, didn't come back. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: See?


Okay? PC: All right. LRH: Because I've taken a little bit of charge off this thing.
And he was supposed to come back in a week, didn't come back. LRH: Hm. PC: . . . at all, you know.


And I've now got – whether we've got havingness or not – I've got now a rather quiet needle. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: This thing was going slamity-slam before.
But I went ahead and taught the course, myself LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 29  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And spent the time blaming Jack, kind of, for not – you know, for Mario – to let Mario – Jack, everybody else, whereby . . . The overt was – golly, it's kind of – there's something to do with holding down the whole thing by myself . . .


TV DEMO: 28  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: I'm not surprised. LRH: Okay? PC: Yes.
LRH: Hm. PC: . . . and proving to them that they were no good, or something like this. you know, I don't know. LRH: All right.


LRH: All right. Let me check these What questions now. PC: All right.
All right. PC: Something like that. LRH: Good enough.


LRH: All right? PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.
Thank you. All right, let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell?


What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right. We're just doing a check on this.
All right. I don't know if that was a reaction or not, I'll check it again. PC: Hm.


It's just – this thing is – there's something about this. What about it? PC: Well, I just think it's silly.
LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got some kind of a reaction. Let's get the 1B checked here.


LRH: All right. Okay. PC: You know, what an effect!
PC: All right. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? All right, let me check it again.


LRH: Thank you. Let me check that again. PC: Mm-hm.
What about these meetings with Gernie? That is clean. PC: Yeah.


LRH: What about undressing every time you went to the bathroom? All right. Thank you.
LRH: All right. Now let me check the first one again. What about conning Jack Campbell?


That's still a little bit warm. PC: Is it? LRH: Mm-hm.
Let me check it again. What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got a reaction on that.


All right, honey. PC: For goodness' sakes. LRH: Now, here's the next one.
PC: Yeah. LRH: It's much quieter. PC: Yeah.


What about you acting rowdy? All right. That's an active question.
LRH: Everything is smoothing out. There is something else here. Is that the first meeting you had with Jack Campbell?


Do you care to say anything there particularly? PC: No. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah! LRH: Was it? PC: Yeah!


Thank you, honey. Well, what about withdrawing from people? Let me check that again.
LRH: All right. PC: Far as I know. LRH: Now, did you and Gernie talk about Jack Campbell?


PC: All right. LRH: What about withdrawing from people? All right.
All right. There's no reaction there. TV DEMO: 30  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm-m.


That's . . . PC: That one's all right. LRH: Apparently nothing on it very much.
LRH: Is there any other con there that you might have skipped? Did you ever borrow money from him, or . . . PC: Yeah.


PC: Yeah. I think I undid that one real good. TV DEMO: 29  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: By the way, what overt was found that caused that to be asked as a What question?
Yeah. LRH: . . . never paid it back? You so far have just mentioned course fees, and so forth.


PC: Santa Maria! LRH: What overt was found? This is the question: What about withdrawing from people?
Did you ever borrow money and not pay it back? PC: I think I paid all the money back I borrowed from him. LRH: I get no reaction on it.


I want to know what overt was found that led to that question being asked. PC: I haven't the faintest idea at this point. LRH: What might it have – I get a reaction here.
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Did you ever take a girl away from him?


PC: Yeah, because I'm supposed to know. I mean, I . . . LRH: Well, do you remember any overt?
PC: No. LRH: Did you ever steal anything off of him? PC: No.


PC: No, I don't remember. LRH: Did you ever have an overt on this? PC: Oh, yeah, I must have.
LRH: All right. Did you ever take a fee while you were teaching there and didn't pay it back, or something like that? PC: No.


LRH: You must have, but did you? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
No. LRH: Huh? PC: No.


PC: Sure. LRH: Did you ever have an overt on this? PC: Mm, yeah.
Huh. LRH: What do you mean? PC: Oh, yeah!


But I can't remember it. LRH: All right. Thank you.
LRH: What? PC: Yeah, I just remembered an overt I got against him . . . LRH: Yeah, all right.


Thank you. All right. All right.
PC: . . . on that. LRH: What is it? PC: While I was there, teaching – you know, teaching the course, holding things down, his – I'd use his office, you know, I mean, his office there.


Nothing wrong with this. PC: Yeah, I – I had a lot of them, really. LRH: You went over a lot of them with the auditor?
LRH: Yeah, yeah. PC: And he said, well, I wasn't supposed to go in the bottom left-hand drawer of his desk. LRH: Right.


PC: Yeah. LRH: Mm. What was the type of overt?
TV DEMO: 31  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I'm not supposed to touch that bottom left-hand drawer. LRH: Okay. PC: And so I went in the bottom – so I did go in the bottom left-hand drawer . . .


PC: God... LRH: Go on, what was the type of overt? PC: Oh, withdrawing my support and stuff like that.
LRH: All right. PC: . . . and rummaged around there a bit, and found some dirty pictures down there. LRH: Okay.


LRH: Hm? PC: Withdrawing my support and uh . . . Gosh, really, I don't really remember.
PC: And never told him about that. Never told him about it. LRH: Okay.


LRH: Well, is that so? All right. PC: Yes, sir.
Did he audit you after that? PC: Yeah. Oh, yeah.


TV DEMO: 30  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: Thank you. PC: Yes, sir. LRH: Thank you.
LRH: All right. Thank you. Thank you.


PC: You're welcome. LRH: All right. PC: But it seemed terrible at the time, I'm sure.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Good enough. Now let me check this question again.


LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Okay, honey.
What about conning Jack Campbell? Well, this is getting to look much cleaner. PC: Yeah.


All right, we've got “What about picking up a body?” PC: That's what I said at the time. LRH: All right. Very good.
LRH: All right. What about conning Jack Campbell? I am not now getting an instant read..


I'll check that on the meter again. What about picking up a body? Okay.
PC: Hm. LRH: . . . but it's a little bit before, and it's a little bit after. PC: Yeah.


PC: I didn't like that one. LRH: What about putting a body in storage? PC: Pretty terrible, huh ?
Well, there's a lot of – must be a lot of – several other things I have done to him, you know? LRH: Well, think of any offhand? PC: Hm, hm, hm.


LRH: Hm? PC: Pretty terrible, huh? LRH: Oh, pretty grim.
LRH: What's that? PC: Oh, well, I – yeah. I conned him there.


Well, what about it? PC: Yeah! Just think it used to be a good way to put them in, you know?
LRH: What? PC: I took the test, my final exam paper . . . LRH: Yeah.


LRH: All right. PC: Save them. LRH: Thank you.
PC: . . . from the HPA, home, and did it at home . . . LRH: Oh, I see. PC: . . . in a sense.


PC: No problem with me right now. LRH: All right. All right, here's one I find.
That's sort of a con. Well, yeah, because I – I – I went home and I – actually, when I took this paper home, I thought it was a joke about learning the Axioms. I – I – you know, learning, memorizing all those Axioms.


I'm not going to go over all these. PC: I think Mary Sue had a list of the whole bunch on the front of it. LRH: On the front of something here, huh?
That was silly. TV DEMO: 32  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And when I – I came – I brought it back.


PC: On the very first page. LRH: Hm? PC: Right on the very first page there.
I copied them out of the book, you know. LRH: Hm. PC: Brought them back, you know, I brought them back.


Yes! TV DEMO: 31  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right. I'll check a couple of more of these.
And he looked at it, and he checked it over, with me there, and he saw that everything was perfect in it. LRH: Hm-m. PC: You know?


What about invalidating a teacher? Anything you'd care to say? PC: Nm.
And he looked at me kind of funny, like “Well, you got it right.” LRH: Hm. PC: I conned him there, because I realized when he looked at me funny that I – it wasn't a joke. I should have memorized those Axioms.


Well, I only did it a couple of times. LRH: All right. Good.
LRH: Oh, I get you. PC: And I – I hadn't. LRH: All right.


Now I'll ask that again. What about invalidating a teacher? I'm not going to check any more: They're all hot, every one of them.
PC: And – and at that moment I knew that – really that – that I hadn't. You know, I mean, I should have, or something, you know ? LRH: Hm-hm, yeah.


PC: Good heavens. LRH: All right, honey. Well arrange to get something flattened on here.
PC: And I conned him there. LRH: Okay. PC: Yeah.


Okay? PC: Except me. LRH: What about except you?
LRH: We got it taped now. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.


PC: We'll not flatten me. LRH: Horrible remark. PC: I know.
Let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? This looks fairly clean.


LRH: All right, honey. You don't want to be flattened, huh? PC: Uh-uh.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: I'll check it just one more time. What about conning Jack Campbell?


LRH: That's a bad one, huh? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
I haven't got anything on it. PC: Hm. LRH: That's clean.


All right. Now, the only thing I'm going to put down here is “1. Find this pc's Hav Process and use it.” And “2.
PC: That was a – that was a – actually, that was the big one there. I mean, that – that one there. LRH: Yeah.


Flatten all What questions on list.” And “3. Withdraw both former auditors from auditing.” There we are. PC: But I had six of them.
That cleaned it. All right. PC: Funny, because I told you about that once, but it wasn't – it wasn't as precise.


LRH: Hm? PC: I had six of them! LRH: Good.
TV DEMO: 33  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: It wasn't “who missed the withhold,” was it? PC: Yeah. Yeah.


It's just the last two. Just the last two. Okay?
LRH: Yeah. Now, all right. Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?


PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Because when I tell somebody to get something done, then I expect it to get done. PC: Yes, sir.
PC: Nope. LRH: All right. Are you sure of that?


LRH: I found a gross auditing error here in auditing a pc without a Havingness Process. Now, I try not to invalidate your auditors: I'm not interested in invalidating them or not. All I'm interested in is, one day I walk out in the hall and I see a girl I like, called Smokey, and she is looking like she has just been dragged in by the cat, Sambo.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking? PC: Now about the double tick?


TV DEMO: 32  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE PC: Didn’t, though? LRH: Yes. And so I says, “Well now, we'll check into this.” So I said, “Well, the person has had a lot of What questions run, and we'll get these checked over.” They were announced to me as being clear and clean and null: they're all hotter than a pistol.
Is that off ? LRH: I knew there was – I can't find it. PC: Yeah.


PC: Mm. LRH: Great? Furthermore, they're not very intelligent What questions.
LRH: It started disappearing when we cleaned up Gernie. PC: Hm. Hm.


But that's all right; that's beside the point. PC: I had fun with some of them. LRH: Sure, I know you did.
LRH: And I haven't seen it. PC: Hm? LRH: But you ask about it there.


But those things can be cleaned. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Okay?
There's . . . PC: Hm. LRH: ... there's a wide motion, there's a wider motion.


PC: All right. LRH: So I made up my mind that the cycle of action which I began . . . PC: Mm-hm.
PC: Hm-hm. LRH: It's about so long, but it isn't the tick I had in the first place. PC: Hm.


LRH: . . . on straightening you up would be finished. I found two gross auditing errors here: one of them is auditing a pc without a Hav Process, and the other one is not flattening the questions. That was all I was looking for.
LRH: I've got a tick here of some kind or another. PC: Hm. LRH: It's not a tick.


PC: All right. LRH: All right. PC: I think I just fool people, you know?
I've got a – a stop and a sweep. PC: Yeah. LRH: But I was looking for a dirty little tick-tick.


LRH: Hm? PC: I think I do fool people. You know, I don't usually – you know, it takes a lot to run me down.
PC: Yeah. LRH: And it seems to have dived for cover at the moment. PC: Hm.


LRH: All right, honey. As far as fooling people is concerned, you can't fool a meter. PC: Oh, I didn't try to.
LRH: There – no, there it is again. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 34  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Why?


LRH: I know you don't. PC: Hm. LRH: No, it's just technical.
What are you thinking of, as you think of that? PC: I don't know. That's the funny thing, you see?


PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 33  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: What are you trying to do, take responsibility for this? Perfectly all right with me if you do.
I kind of look at something. I kind of look at an area of the bank. LRH: Hm-hm.


PC: Oh, of course! LRH: All right. Go ahead and take responsibility for it.
PC: You know, or something, or a piece of a ridge there, or something like that. LRH: Well, that's all right. PC: You know ?


PC: All right. LRH: That's all right. PC: That's better.
And I get it there . . . LRH: It's all right. It's all right.


LRH: All right. Now, have I missed a withhold on you? Thank you.
Okay. PC: I can bring it back by sweeping, you know? Scanning across.


That's clear. PC: I know. LRH: What were you thinking about?
LRH: Well, try it – to bring it back. PC: 1b bring it back? It's – I don't know.


PC: Naturally it's clear! LRH: Huh? PC: Naturally it's clear.
LRH: Yeah. A little bit. Little bit.


LRH: All right. Now, is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this? PC: No.
PC: Yeah, there's a little button there, it's – push – I don't know. LRH: All right. There it is.


LRH: Hm? PC: Not a thing LRH: Anything you care to ask or say before I end it? PC: Well, just say “thank you,” of course.
PC: Creeps up on me. I was just trying there . . . LRH: All right.


LRH: All right, honey. Now, I got a little dirty – instant dirty needle there. PC: Well – uh – well, that's my secret.
But do you think we've attained anything there, on that? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.


LRH: What's your secret? PC: You see, I have hot flushes sometimes. LRH: All right.
PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Okay.


Okay. PC: Age, you know. LRH: Yeah.
LRH: Okay. Now, let's see what we've got here. Okay?


Yeah. PC: Mm. LRH: Yeah.
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me any half-truth? What's the half-truth?


PC: So it – it gets a little dirty needle at times . . . TV DEMO: 34  CHECK ON ‘WHAT’ QUESTION AND HAVINGNESS PROBE LRH: All right, honey. PC: . . . on that one thing.
That's it. PC: Oh, about writing those things for Robin, maybe. That's what I thought of . . .


LRH: Okay. Let me ask this again. Is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this checkover?
LRH: All right. All right. PC: ... right there.


PC: No. Don't think so. LRH: All right.
LRH: Thank you. I'll check it on the meter. Have you told me any half-truth?


Think of anything else? Little something there? PC: Uh – well, I appreciate your finding uh – that the havingness is out, because I do think l need it.
Got it. Check, bang It reacts. PC: Hm-hm.


LRH: Mm-hm. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Hm, all right.
Half-truths. Gee, I don't know. LRH: Hm?


All right. Good enough. All right.
TV DEMO: 35  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I don't know what it Was. LRH: Think of anything at all? What's that?


I'm going to check this one question on the meter here. PC: Mm-hm. LRH: Is there anything you care to ask or say before I end this checkover?
PC: Oh, well, there must be some other things with Jack, I think. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: You know.


Thank you. That is clear. PC: Okay.
LRH: All right. PC: I was . . . LRH: You weren't satisfied that the What question was clean?


LRH: All right, honey. Thank you very much. PC: All right.
PC: Yeah, I was satisfied. LRH: Yeah. PC: There was probably other things on the chain there along some – you know, little ones . . .


Thank you. LRH: Put down the cans. You can go back downstairs and give the Instructor this.
LRH: All right. PC: ... like that, but not enough to . . . LRH: Okay.


PC: All right. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yes.
PC: Hm. LRH: Thank you. I'll check the auditing question.


LRH: Okay.
Have you told me any half-truth? Clean. Untruth?
 
What's the untruth? PC: Untruth. LRH: That's it.
 
Untruth. PC: About Gernie? I don't know.
 
LRH: Think of an untruth? PC: Well, she didn't actually – I don't think she really ever really insinuated that she was interested in me, sexually. LRH: Ah.
 
PC: You know? I – it – I think it was mainly my own ideas or something. You know, I mean, I kind of switched things around or something.
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Have you told me any untruth?
 
Got a reaction. PC: Hm. Huh, I don't know what it is.
 
Untruth. LRH: There's something PC: I don't know what it is. TV DEMO: 36  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Something there.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. I'll ask the question again.
 
PC: Yeah. Yeah. LRH: Your answer is you don't know what it is?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Thank you.
 
PC: I- I got an idea. LRH: What is it? PC: Something about beginning rudiments.
 
LRH: Did you think one of them was still hot? PC: Maybe I had kind of a suspicion or something. I wasn't sure.
 
LRH: Oh, yeah? PC: Well, it could of – yeah, well, kind of a – of a missed withhold or something, you know? LRH: All right.
 
All right. PC: I was – I was – when you said – when you asked about a present time problem, I had a tiny present time problem that I haven't been able to get to sleep too well . . . LRH: Yeah.
 
PC: ... over the last week or so. LRH: Yeah. PC: And I thought that it might show up.
 
And then it didn't show up. And I thought it might show up, and uh – but it didn't show up. LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: And so I thought maybe that was something wrong there. LRH: All right. Is there an untruth?
 
Was any of that an untruth? PC: No, no, there wasn't an untruth on that. LRH: Well, was it an untruth?
 
Did you tell me that it . . . ? PC: An untruth, huh? LRH: Thinking of something there.
 
TV DEMO: 37  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Well, yeah. If I said I had a present time problem and it didn't react on the meter, then it would be an untruth. LRH: Is that right?
 
PC: Yes. LRH: Is that what occurred? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: You're not sure? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that your answer?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Very good.
 
I will check that. All right. Have you told me an untruth?
 
I get a reaction. Let me check it again . . . PC: Hm.
 
LRH: ... because you got a pretty dirty needle. PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me an untruth?
 
PC: Gee, I don't know what it is. LRH: This is very equivocal. PC: Yeah?
 
LRH: Do you have a guilty conscience about telling untruths or something of the sort here? This is not getting the same reaction . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: . . . constantly at all. PC: I – I – I have a guilty conscience. It's just, you know, a general one-has-a-guilty- conscience guilty conscience, you know?
 
LRH: Well, does that upset you that I asked you if you've told an untruth? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that what this is falling on?
 
PC: Yeah, maybe. LRH: Well, is it or isn't it? PC: Yeah, I didn't expect it to fall.
 
TV DEMO: 38  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Oh, all right. Okay. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Let me check it again. Have you told me an untruth?
 
Now, I still get a reaction on this. That's it. PC: Oh.
 
About my friend with the letter? LRH: All right. PC: My friend ?
 
LRH: Well, what's the untruth there? That's it. PC: Well, I'm not – I'm not absolutely positive I wrote it to the right address.
 
Huh? Have to go back, I have to check my – my address book . . . LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: . . . to make sure, because I just – I wrote the address out, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . after having remembered it.
 
And I'm not – I have to check my address book. LRH: All right. Thank you.
 
Is there an untruth in that anyplace? PC: Well, I said that . . . LRH: What was the untruth?
 
PC: Hm. LRH: That's it. PC: Well, that he – that I'm sure – well, that I'm sure that he would have – would have told me if he had moved.
 
LRH: Oh, I see. PC: You know. LRH: All right.
 
PC: And maybe he wouldn't have. I'm not sure that he would have told me that he moved. LRH: All right.
 
Very good. PC: Right. LRH: Very good.
 
Have you told me an untruth? All right. That's clean.
 
Or said something only to impress me? I'll check that again. Have you said something only to impress me?
 
Have you said something only to impress me? I haven't got any reaction on that. Your needle is banging around here . . .
 
TV DEMO: 39  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Oh. LRH: . . . so I have to check it a little bit. Would you care to answer it?
 
PC: I was thinking maybe that this overt on Robin I said, but it wasn't only to impress you. No, it wasn't. LRH: All right.
 
Good. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check it again.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? Now I am getting a kick on this.
 
PC: Oh, it wasn't only to impress you, but maybe I – it was a little bit to impress you. This overt on Robin, about writing him notes and stuff . . . LRH: All right.
 
PC: . . . like that. LRH: Okay. Thank you.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? That's clean.
 
Or tried to damage anyone in this session? Thank you. That's clean.
 
Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Now what's the ping on that? PC: I was looking for that – that double tick.
 
LRH: Oh! PC: You know? LRH: All right.
 
All right. PC: Looking for the double tick that I had. LRH: Very good.
 
All right. I'll check that. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E- Meter?
 
I get a little tick on it still. PC: Well, I implied that I could influence, I suppose, to a certain extent, if I could “push the button.” I said I could “push the button” there and get a double tick. LRH: Oh, yeah.
 
PC: You know, and that – if that was true, then I could push the button any time and get a double tick. LRH: Yeah. PC: Sort of push the button.
 
TV DEMO: 40  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right. PC: That wasn't true, you know. LRH: Okay.
 
All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Very improbable.
 
I will check it one more time. PC: Oh, I don't want it to read when – when I can't find anything to – to – for it to read on. LRH: Oh, I see.
 
PC: You see? LRH: All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter?
 
I haven't got a reading here . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... but subject seems to be kind of mucky.
 
PC: Well, I've kind of held my breath at times, hoping that I wouldn't get any read, or something on that. Read a body read or – I mean, it was silly, you know? I was sort of holding my breath or holding my body still and holding my hands still to make sure that the E-Meter doesn't read.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Good.
 
All right. PC: Hm. LRH: Okay.
 
Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Well, this is a bzz-bzz... PC: Hm-hm.
 
LRH: ... sort of question. It isn't reacting very hard, but there's something there. Feel you gave me a lose by making – I was trying to clean up this double tick, or . . .
 
PC: Something to do with that. No, not so much. LRH: ... or something like that?
 
Any feeling like that at all? PC: Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe – maybe I thought it at the moment when I said “What happened to the double tick?” LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: And I thought, well, the double tick should have gone by now, you see? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: It cleared up with Gernie, then that was the end of the double tick.
 
TV DEMO: 41  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: Then it came back. LRH: Hm.
 
PC: And in a sense I felt I influenced the E-Meter, or something, to bring it back on, you know, like that. LRH: Hm. All right.
 
Okay. Now let me check this question again. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? That is clean. All right.
 
Have you failed to answer any question or command I have given you in this session? Thank you. That's clean.
 
Have you withheld anything from me? It's a trifle latent . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: ... but what is it? PC: I was thinking there was one just – there was one question that I may have failed to answer . . . LRH: What was that?
 
PC: ... much earlier, and I'm surprised it didn't react. I was thinking there was one, and it should have reacted. LRH: Oh, all right.
 
PC: Or something like that. LRH: All right, what question was it? PC: The one about “What about those meetings in between?” I never did find a meeting in between . . .
 
LRH: Oh, all right. PC: ...you see, those two. LRH: Thank you.
 
I'm sorry I asked the double question then. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? I got a reaction.
 
PC: I don't understand what you meant by double question. Or . . . LRH: I ask you a question, you answer it and I ask you another question.
 
I was just apologizing  TV DEMO: 42  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: When was that? 1. . . LRH: Just a moment ago. PC: Hm.
 
LRH: All right. Let me check this . . . PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: ... again. Hm? Have you withheld anything from me?
 
Well, this – this is greasy. This hasn't anything to do with it. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? There is not an instant read on this. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Withheld? Well, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Withheld? Yes, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Lot of things I'd like to talk to you about.
 
I – you know . . . LRH: Well, all right. Now, get the question here, now.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me?
 
All right. It looks much cleaner. PC: Yeah.
 
There's a lot of things I – I don't tell you or talk about, or something like that. you know, sometimes I . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...I've withheld – I've withheld communicating to you how pleased I am to be on the course, and how – how – how . . .
 
LRH: All right. PC: ... and how many gains I have got and how tremendous I think it is. That's all.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know? LRH: Very good.
 
PC: But it's not an overt act. I'm trying to give overt acts that I've done and I've withheld, you know, or something like that. LRH: Oh, I see.
 
All right. Have you withheld anything from me? There's a slight needle change . . .
 
TV DEMO: 43  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Uh-huh. LRH: ... right there on the end of that. PC: Uh...
 
LRH: There it is. There it is. PC: Yeah.
 
All right. All right. This is very funny.
 
I – I got myself in the front – right at the front of the class . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... this week, under the assumption I was no longer an old – a new student – that I'm an old student.
 
Last week Herbie caught me in the third row from the back, in the first lecture, and I – here you know I – I kind of snuck up to the third row that first day . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ...you know.
 
He told me I could sit in back, you know . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... new student, next time.
 
Well, yesterday I got in the second row from the front . . . LRH: Uh-huh. PC: ... and no one caught me at it.
 
If – if now, as – a little games condition thing there, and I was just seeing if – if the second week, if you're still a new student, and – and if I wouldn't be (a) I wouldn't get caught at it or (b) I would – could argue my way out that I was a new student. LRH: All right. PC: And – or something like that.
 
Anyway, it's silly LRH: All right. Thank you. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? A halt as it goes, as it comes back up.
 
PC: Hm. LRH: There. PC: Hm.
 
LRH: There. What are you thinking about? PC: Well, I . . .
 
LRH: There. TV DEMO: 44  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I had an argument with – a little argument with Robin. LRH: Hm-hm.
 
PC: ... about – after I took over the post. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And I . . . oh, I don't know, I didn't tell you about it.
 
LRH: All right. Very good. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Okay? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that it?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me check this question on the meter.
 
Have you withheld anything from me? It's just a little roughness. Pretty clean.
 
Just a little roughness. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Hardly detectable.
 
A slowed rise. PC: I'm trying to differentiate between motivators and, you know, overt acts, and what's really a withhold, and what isn't, and, you know, I'm still a little confused on that. LRH: All right.
 
PC: And... LRH: Does that answer the question? PC: Yeah.
 
And I'm not sure what – what a withhold is at this point, in a sense, you see? LRH: Oh. PC: And...
 
LRH: I see. PC: Because it . . . LRH: I get you.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: Well, go ahead, if you want. PC: Well, it's just a “damage somebody, “you know ?
 
I mean, it's not – see, I'm confused. LRH: All right. TV DEMO: 45  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: You know, it's – it's that – that's – it's – it's – it's not a withhold, really, because I wouldn't mind telling you LRH: All right.
 
PC: You see? LRH: All right. PC: So I don't . . .
 
LRH: Very good. PC: ... but if I did tell you, it would be kind of a “damage”; then it would be an overt act, then it – you know, it would – the rudiments would go out. And then, you know, I'm a little confused on what's a withhold.
 
It's something I did. LRH: All right. PC: And I can't think of anything I did that I, you know, withheld from you.
 
LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Let me check the question again.
 
PC: Hm. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? Still get a reaction.
 
PC: Still get a reaction. LRH: There it is. PC: Right there.
 
LRH: There it is. PC: Well, I – I – I . . . LRH: There it is.
 
PC: Well, it's kind of an overt act now. I changed the franchise thing a – a little bit while I had the post. LRH: Hm.
 
PC: And it didn't really become an overt act until Robin got excited about it when he took over. LRH: Hm. PC: And then – then I – something happened.
 
LRH: Hm-m. TV DEMO: 46  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And I put in some – made franchises a little stiffer, you know, to get a franchise. LRH: Hm-m.
 
PC: And made co-audit centers beef it up a little bit to – you know, to get more information to them for people who didn't, I felt, deserve franchises or, you know, because they weren't working at it, you know? LRH: Hm-m. PC: To kind of give them a gradient to get up to a franchise.
 
Well, I withheld from you telling you that – that since Robin had taken over he's – he's switched it back and made franchise very easy to get, you know, and everything else. And I think that's wrong. And I withheld telling you that I think it's wrong LRH: All right.
 
Okay. PC: But it's none of my business anymore. LRH: All right.
 
PC: Huh. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Okay. Let me check the question. Have you withheld anything from me?
 
Well, it's clean. PC: Yeah. Oh, is it?
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Look around here and tell me if you can have anything.
 
Thank you. Squeeze them cans. All right.
 
Squeeze the cans. All right. Put the cans up on the table.
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Touch the table.
 
Now, we were running Feel, weren't we? PC: Yeah, well, same thing LRH: Does it mean anything PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. Touch the table. Thank you.
 
Touch your chair. Thank you. Touch that.
 
Good. Thank you. Touch the table.
 
Good. Good. Touch the top of your head.
 
Good. Thank you. Touch the table.
 
Good. Touch your chair. Good.
 
All right. Pick up the cans. Okay.
 
Squeeze the cans. That's much better. Squeeze them again.
 
All right. We are going to let it go at that. Thank you.
 
All right. Made any part of your goals for this session? PC: I think so.
 
TV DEMO: 47  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. All right. PC: I think cleaning off this stuff on Jack will help me in Scientology – (a) in Scientology, help me in my – in studying.
 
LRH: Stay in PT while studying? All right. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Good. PC: And – what was my other goal? LRH: Sleep.
 
PC: Sleep? LRH: Sleep at night? PC: Yeah.
 
Yeah. Yeah, no trouble. No trouble.
 
Won't have any trouble. LRH: You're postulating that, or do you – do you know? PC: No, I know.
 
I just know. LRH: All right. PC: I´ll just go to sleep easily.
 
LRH: You're not trying to make me look good? PC: No, no. LRH: All right.
 
PC: No. I – I just – I just feel better, and feel kind of tired, and feel like sleeping, instead of nervously tired. There's a difference.
 
LRH: All right. Okay. Okay.
 
PC: Yeah. I've been nervous. And I don't feel as nervous now.
 
LRH: All right. PC: So... LRH: I see.
 
All right. Well, have you made any other gains in this session you care to mention? PC: Cleaned up on Scientology.
 
LRH: All right. PC: Remembered a few things, that. . . LRH: Okay.
 
PC: ... didn't remember otherwise. TV DEMO: 48  FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Anything else? PC: Hm . . .
 
I just feel more rested . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...you know.
 
I don't feel as frantic as I used to feel. LRH: Good. All right.
 
Thank you. PC: I got on television again. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. PC: It's a game. LRH: All right.
 
Okay. Is there anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? PC: No, but thank you.
 
LRH: All right. You're sure? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Let me check that. Anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? Thank you.
 
All right. You're all right, then, huh? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right. Is it all right with you if I end this session now? PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: All right, here it is. End of session. Has the session ended for you?
 
PC: Yeah. Yeah, it has. LRH: Has it?
 
PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.
 
LRH: Very good. Tell me I'm no longer auditing you. PC: You're no longer auditing me.
 
LRH: Thank you.


[[Category:Lectures]]
[[Category:Lectures]]
[[Category:Lectures SHSBC]]
[[Category:Lectures SHSBC]]
[[Category:Lectures 1962]]
[[Category:Lectures 1962]]

Latest revision as of 18:55, 26 December 2025

Series: Saint Hill Special Briefing Course (SHSBC)

Date: 23 May 1962

Speaker: L. Ron Hubbard

← Back to Series

LRH: We are going to give you a proper session, and we're going to do some fish and fumble there. PC: Okay. LRH: I told you just a moment ago, we're going to look for this tick-tick, and we're going to see if we can find this tick-tick, and find out what it was, because that had me mighty curious when I had you on the line.

PC: That was the one on – on that Prepcheck chain I went down. LRH: Yeah. PC: Hm.

LRH: That's right. That was an interesting thing I actually did narrow it down to just that, and – since then. PC: Hm.

LRH: So we'll see if it's still there. PC: Great. LRH: Okay.

Is it all right with you if I begin this session now? PC: Yeah. LRH: Good.

Start of session. Has the session started for you? PC: Yeah.

Not really. LRH: All right. All right.

Here it is. PC: Yeah. LRH: Start of session.

PC: Okay. TV DEMO: 2 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. What goals would you like to set for this session?

PC: To be able to get to sleep easier at night. I've been having trouble getting to sleep. LRH: All right.

PC: The last few nights. And to . . . LRH: Good.

PC: ... to stay in present time when I'm studying When I sort of run out of – get out of present time, find myself read ing over a paragraph of a bulletin or something like that without reading it. LRH: Okay. All right.

Any other goals? PC: That ought to do it. LRH: All right.

Got an ARC break there? All right, thank you. Any goals you'd like to set for life or livingness?

PC: I'd like to – well, I have a goal: it's – it's – it's an imp – almost impossible goal, but maybe it's possible, you know? LRH: Yeah? PC: To get Class II by the end of the month, or by the end of this period.

But, you know, it's getting pretty close there. LRH: All right. Anything else?

PC: I'd like to be auditing next week. Start auditing. LRH: All right.

PC: Champing at the bit. I want to – like those – a little like those commandos who want to, you know, get out. LRH: All right.

Okay, Fred. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. All right.

Now, let's see. What process was working on you? It was Touch, wasn't it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans.

Thank you. Put the cans down. All right.

We're going to run a little bit of Touch here. All right. Touch that table.

Thank you. Touch that wood. Thank you.

Touch that ashtray. Thank you. Touch that chair.

Thank you. Touch those cans. Good.

Give them a squeeze. Squeeze 'em. All right.

Squeeze 'em. Hey, that's a difference! All right, thank you.

All right. That's it. Now – check this on the meter.

Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. Thank you. Relatively clean.

PC: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 3 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Just a little slowdown; doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Feel better?

PC: Yeah. LRH: Hey, what do you know? That was fast enough, wasn't it?

All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties? Thank you.

That's clean. Since the last time I audited you . . . PC: A lot of water's gone under the bridge.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? I have an action there. PC: Well, I – I – I – I got an overt against Robin, I guess.

LRH: Okay. PC: I – I thought that was pretty clean. Anyway, when I – I left the – I left that post, I – I wrote a whole series of notes . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . explaining the job to ever – whoever. I – I addressed them to Franchise Secretary from Fred.

LRH: Hm. PC: Whole series of notes explaining the job, explaining various aspects, vari – you know, the various things I was working on. And I – I wasn't exactly sure Robin was going to come on the post, but I was pretty sure.

And – but I thought it would be kind of funny if I – you know, it would be interesting, if I . . . LRH: All right. PC: . . . wrote these notes and told Robin how to do the job.

But anyway, it was kind of an overt on Robin. LRH: Okay. PC: It was.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything you are withholding? Got a little tick there. PC: Well, it's uh – I uh . . .

LRH: That's it. PC: . . . this friend of mine – it's about this – this . . . Remember about – suspicions about that key and about . . .

TV DEMO: 4 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . this friend ? This is about that key.

I – I never got in touch with him. I wrote him a letter . . . LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: . . . saying, “Oh, you know, gee, I haven't seen you, and give me a call.” I got the letter back – no – n-n-not at – not at that address. LRH: All right. PC: You know?

And I was, you know, wondering what – what happened. Something's – something's wrong there, you see? LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: I have to check in . . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . because, (a) he wouldn't move without letting me know his new address.

LRH: Hm. PC: Um – (b) I might have wrote it to the wrong address . . . LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . but I – I – I don't think so. LRH: Mm-mm. PC: And something wrong there.

I have to look into that. LRH: All right. Very good.

All right. Let me check this on the meter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? Little tick, much smaller. PC: Yeah.

LRH: That's it. PC: I had a party at my place, and some girls over, and kind of a wild party. LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: I told you about that, I think . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . probably the group, you know . . . LRH: Okay. TV DEMO: 5 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . but not about that party.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding?

That's cleaner than a wolf's tooth. Very good? PC: Yep.

LRH: All right. Do you have a present time problem? Thank you.

That's clean. Okay. Now, I told you about fishing around here.

PC: Yeah. LRH: And we're going to do some fish and fumble . . . PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: . . . see where we wind up here. And mysteriously, I have no tick-tick. PC: Well...

LRH: Obviously, you're . . . What were you going to say? PC: I don't know.

It was on that chain, and it was on that past life, or connected u with it. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: Maybe if I found that again and I could – I don't know if it was that or something else, or what.

LRH: Well, that, you know . . . PC: It was something – it was something about messing with little girls . . . LRH: Yeah?

PC: . . . you knows? LRH: Yeah. PC: Something – messing with little girls . . .

LRH: There it is. There it is. There it is.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Ha-ha, ha-ha! PC: Uhh.

LRH: All right. Well, we didn't have to fish very long there, did we? PC: No.

LRH: Something about messing with little girls. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 6 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: And just like that, we get it back.

All right, let me check it now. PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay?

What about messing with little girls? Well, that isn't quite the tick-tick. PC: No.

LRH: Now, let me see if we can get it just a little closer than that. There it is. What did you just think of?

PC: Dang! I – I – I just look – kind of looked at a little something there, and kind of looked away. I can't – you know, sort of a hunk of something, you know?

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. PC: One of those gray hunks of something . . . LRH: That's right.

PC: ... that don't have any definite . . . LRH: There it is again. PC: I – it looks like a – a rocket ship nose, or something, or – or a bomb nose, or something like this.

I don't know. LRH: Yeah. PC: Is that it, or . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: ... or not? I . . .

LRH: Well, let me check this over again. What about messing with little girls? Ahh, there – there's a tiny little slowdown there.

PC: I looked at that thing again, when you mentioned it. LRH: Something here about messing with little girls in the nose of a rocket ship? PC: I – that's what the – I looked at that, and there was something connected there or someplace; I don't know what.

LRH: Yeah. PC: But, you see, it . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: It's a – it's kind of a, you know, what's happening here? You know? How come – how come this connects up like this or something like that, you know ?

LRH: All right. Well, I'll find it. PC: Yeah.

TV DEMO: 7 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: I'll find it. Now – there it is! Who are you looking at?

PC: Well, it – that was th-th-those two little girls that we talked about in that Prepchecking session that I . . . LRH: That's it. PC: ... those two twins.

LRH: Uh-huh. PC: They were either twins or – or sisters that I messed with . . . LRH: Uh-uh.

PC: ... in – back in early – early days in my life. LRH: That's it. PC: I was ten years old, or so.

And so . . . LRH: And we were going down that chain. PC: Yeah.

Yeah. We kind of went past them, and . . . LRH: All right.

Let me see if I can get a What question that's right into the middle there. PC: Hm. LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls?

That's it. PC: Is it? LRH: I get a tinier, smaller read.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I might be able to vary that just a little bit. There it is.

What's that? PC: That's a picture of sexually interfering with a little girl. LRH: Yeah.

PC: I don't think it's this lifetime. I mean, I don't know . . . LRH: Well, that doesn't matter.

PC: Yeah. That's that sex pervert or . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . probably a sex-pervert thing. But that's tied up with that other – that – that . . . Well, it – I – I think it's the same little girl as in that other picture I've had so many years, I looked at.

LRH: What was that? The . . . PC: The one of having a little girl with her panties down, and with a – switching her.

TV DEMO: 8 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And seeing – this picture is seeing an – an older man do this. Watching it from the bushes, something like this . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . in – in the yard of this . . . LRH: Right.

PC: . . . place with . . . LRH: Right. PC: . . . a stream going by or something like that.

LRH: Right. PC: I've had that picture so long, you know? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And this – I'm not sure if it's the same girl or not. LRH: All right. Now, hold your cans still there and let me check it.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check another little What here. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about punishing little girls? Clean. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? It's not giving me the same read as the double tick. PC: Yeah.

LRH: There – what's that? PC: Switching little girls. LRH: What about switching little girls?

That isn't it. PC: Eating little girls? LRH: Beating little girls?

PC: Beating or eating? LRH: Eating PC: Eating little girls. TV DEMO: 9 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.

What about eating little girls? Well, I get a something of a reaction there. What about eating little girls?

It cleaned. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.

Let me try another What question here. What about stealing little girls? I get an action here.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: You see, the reason I'm putting that together isn't a shot in the dark. you were talking about taking over a body before this lifetime. PC: Yeah.

LRH: See, and I was . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . getting a reaction on that.

Now, what about taking over little girls? I don't get the same reaction. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: What about stealing little girls? I get an instant read on that. What about stealing little girls?

It's not the same instant read I'm fishing for, however. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: There it is.

There it is. It was just for a minute and we went by it. PC: Boy, that's awfully fast, you know?

It's – it's . . . Boy, it's something that's really occluded. LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PC: Ha! No – all around it, but I can't . . . LREI: All right.

PC: . . . can't get to it. LRH: All right. PC: But I keep popping – keep thinking about – on the same line, I don't know if it's just jazz chat or what.

But some incident I ran – some past life incident, way back. LRH: Hm-mm. PC: Spaceship – just wound up taking over the . . .

Supposed to burn off this planet and save one city and rape the city, or something like that. LRH: What's this now? Take a . . .

PC: I – I – I. TV DEMO: 10 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . a burner . . . PC: Yeah, to burn off the whole planet.

LRH: Oh, you burnt off a whole – I got it. PC: Yeah, I was supposed to blow – burn the whole thing off, but I saved one city, and I raped the city before I burned it off LRH: Yeah. PC: And part of that was it – at least as I came up in – I don't know, it – hell, it picked them – I mean, it's just not . . .

LRH: Well, now there – there's the double tick. PC: Yeah? It's – I take – took all the – asked all the five-year-old girls in the – all the five-year-old blond little girls in the town into the palace, and raped them all.

LRH: Hm-hm. We're getting the tick-tick. PC: Yeah.

Huh! LRH: We did. PC: And then – did that and my – I ordered my men, or my men and I raped – raped all these little girls . . .

LRH: Mm-m. There's your tick-tick. PC: . . . five-year-old girls.

And then afterward, we burned the city off. LRH: All right. Let's see if I can make up a What here.

PC: Hm. LRH: What about raping a city? All right.

What about raping little girls? What about raping little girls? No.

What about that auditing session? What about that auditing session that you ran that in? That's it.

There's a latent on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: All right.

What auditor was that? PC: Think it was Stan. LRH: Who?

PC: Stan Stromfeld. LRH: Yeah? PC: Think it was him.

Must have been him. LRH: Was it? I don't get a reaction here.

PC: No? TV DEMO: 11 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Was it Stan Stromfeld that ran that? I don't get any reaction on that.

PC: I'll be darned. LRH: Somebody earlier than that? PC: Janine?

No. Unless it was New York. Oh, maybe it was Doris.

Marge ? Damn. I don – I can't remember . . .

LRH: All right. Let's put it together here. PC: ... who it was.

Raping – past lives and . . . LRH: There – you got the – there's the ghost of a tick. PC: Denise?

LRH: Yeah. There it is. Microscopically smaller.

PC: Yeah, I know it. you . . . Something there. LRH: I just want to know what auditor it was.

PC: ...I'm not sure. you know? I mean, I – I – I don't really get anything. LRH: All right.

Well, let me help you out, may I? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Was it a girl auditor? Was it a male auditor? Male auditor.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Did it happen in the United States? Did it happen in Paris?

All right, did it happen in Paris? Now I've got a double tick. PC: Hm.

LRH: What are you thinking about? Happening in Paris? PC: Vincent?

Mario? Maybe it was Jack Campbell. LRH: All right.

Was it Jack Campbell? PC: Maybe it was. LRH: All right.

Was that auditor Jack Campbell? PC: Yeah, I guess it was. LRH: There's something here about it now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm gettin . . . PC: Yeah, I guess it was. 'Cause he – he – he – he ran me on RT-3, think it was – OT 3.

LRH: Yeah. TV DEMO: 12 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And it kind of went way back . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: ... into a lot of stuff . . . LRH: Now we're getting a double tick here. PC: ... past life stuff.

Yeah. There was that. LRH: All right.

You remember this now? PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay. And, now, did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?

PC: Undoubtedly! No doubt. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, I think he did. LRH: All right. All right.

Okay. Let me check that on the meter. Did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?

I get a reaction. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Now . . . PC: It – it's like saying, did Jack Campbell ever and it you ? You know, I mean, it's like the same question.

In fast, it was – it was funny. LRH: Now, we're taking off from that as a Zero question. PC: All right.

Ooh. LRH: All right. PC: There must be something there?

Line charge? Or something. LRH: Okay.

Now let me check out a possible One. PC: All right. LRH: Okay.

What did you successfully hide from Jack Campbell? All right, let me check that. Now let me check another one.

What have you done to Jack Campbell? Well, we're going to take that first. PC: Yeah, it would be a good idea, I think.

LRH: Rightly or wrongly, we will take that first, because it'll flatten rather rapidly. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 13 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right.

We will test that now. We know that you have withheld from him. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: All right. Would that be doing something to him? PC: The action of withholding from him?

LRH: Yeah, we actually are wrong here in phrasing this What question . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . but I'm just testing this thing Is there a specific overt?

PC: Uh... LRH: I get a tick. PC: Yeah.

It – it's a kind of a – a specific overt, many times, in a sense, you know? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Well, the first overt, really, is that I considered that kind of – something was not quite right, or I didn't quite . . .

Well, when I first took the Communication Course in Paris, this . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . you know, in Scientology – the Scientology Communication Course – you take the Communication Course.

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I – I didn't have the money for the course, and I told him that – oh, I was – I – I knew he liked me. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: All right, I knew he and Gernie liked me, I knew they were interested in me, they liked my work in the theater, blah-blah-blah. LRH: Hm. PC: And so I said, “Well, I – I – well, I – I'm – gee, I'd like to take this course, Jack, but I – you know, I can't pay for it.

Don't have the money.” LRH: Hm. PC: Like that. Now, I might have been able to serape the money up if I had really – you know. you know, if he'd said, “Well, no, you go after the money and come and take the course.” LRH: All right.

TV DEMO: 14 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: But he said – 'I don't have the money. I – I can't take this . . .” and he said, “All right. It's all right,” he said, “We – we want you to get the course.

You can pay me later. “I said, “Fine.” LRH: Well, tell me this now. Good. Tell me this now: Was that – the question we're on is doing something to him.

Now, what specifically did you do to him there? PC: I kind of conned him into – I conned him into giving me the course for nothing You know? LRH: All right.

Good. You conned him into it. PC: Yeah.

After – yeah . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... a fashion.

LRH: That's it. All right. Now, what about conning Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah, that's a good What question. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.

That's a good What question. Very good. LRH: Good.

Well, that's the one we are going to work. PC: Yeah, it makes me sweat a little bit. LRH: All right.

Very good. When was that? PC: Summer of 1968.

LRH: Very good. Is that all there is to it? PC: Oh, I thought, well, if – you know, what do I have to lose here, you know?

Nothing – nothing in this course, and, well, figured on paying him later on. LRH: All right. Good enough.

All right. And what might have appeared there? PC: Well, I could have shake – shaken some money up from someplace, I think . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... to pay for it. LRH: Very good.

And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, Jack didn't. I – I – I – the fact I could have gotten the money someplace to pay for it, I think.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Very, very good.

Okay. When was that? Very specifically.

TV DEMO: 15 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: July of – gee, the Moscow Art Theatre was in town. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: I think it was the end of June.

I think it was the end of June. End of June in 1968. LRH: All right.

Good. And what else is there about this? PC: Well, I – I – I – I went on and took the course, and conned him again into giving me the HPA Course without paying for it over there.

LRH: All right. Okay. And what didn't appear there?

PC: Fifty thousand francs for the HPA Course. LRH: Oh-ho-ho, I see. PC: Still hasn't appeared.

LRH: All right. And who didn't find out about that? PC: Well, the – the people who I owed money to didn't find out that I was spending more money or, you know . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... putting myself into more debt . . . LRH: I see.

PC: ... in a sense. LRH: All right. PC: Kind of a little bit of an overt against them.

Very funny. LRH: What? PC: Just getting more debts without paying them off LRH: I see.

PC: You know, something like that. LRH: All right. Very good.

Very good. All right. Now, let's test this What question.

PC: Hm. LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? Have to test it again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

That seems to have a tiny little bit of reaction on it. Let me ask you this. Is there any earlier moment there?

Is there anything earlier, before that Comm Course? What's that? PC: Yeah, had coffee or something with Jack and Gernie...

LRH: Yeah? TV DEMO: 16 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: . . . and – I – Jack paid for the coffee or the drink or something – earlier, when I first met him. And I kind of conned him there a little bit. you know, he paid for the drink.

LRH: All right. Well, when was that? PC: Was after a play.

It – it was – well, it must have been after a – it must have been that spring, along in March or something like that. LRH: Get a tick-tick. PC: Yeah.

In March . . . LRH: Yeah. All right.

Good enough. PC: . . . that year. Yeah.

LRH: All right. What else is there to that? PC: I just – that was the first time I saw him.

That night. LRH: That's the first time you ever saw him? PC: Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Bang PC: Yeah. Gernie invited me for a drink after an American Embassy Little Theatre group . . .

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . production. LRH: All right.

PC: I'm not sure if it was hers or somebody else's. And – with her and Jack, and I saw this character first appear. LRH: All right.

Okay. And what might have appeared there? PC: Hm.

Well, I don't know. A couple of hundred francs from my pocket, I guess, to pay for the drinks, could have appeared. LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I think I was broke, or something, and I had to con him. you know, I couldn't pay the drink. I don't think I had any money on me, or something like this.

It was funny. LRH: All right. Very good. who didn't find out about it?

PC: Well Jack and – Jack and Gernie didn't. LRH: All right. Very good.

Very good. All right. Let me test this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

Still got an action. Did you meet him any earlier than that? TV DEMO: 17 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Not that I know of LRH: Ah-ah-ah.

PC: Yeah? LRH: You meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? PC: Man, I don't remember if I do.

LRH: Come on, come on, come on. Did you meet him earlier than that? I got a reaction here.

PC: No. LRH: Let me test this very carefully, before I send you off on a wild-goose chase. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? You've got a reaction here, man.

PC: I'll be darned. Jack Campbell earlier. LRH: Yes, Jack Campbell earlier.

PC: I knew Gernie before I knew Jack. LRH: Uh-huh. PC: The first I remember Gernie is meeting her after one of my productions there.

LRH: All right. PC: And, I heard about Jack. Damn!

Or something, and I was kind of curious about him. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And...

LRH: What are you plowing around with there? You got a double tick. PC: Yeah.

It was meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... after that production . . .

LRH: Right. PC: ... in – in – in the foyer of the . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... American Students and Artists Center . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

TV DEMO: 18 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: ... and – this – there's some unknown there. I can't remember about this – that . . . Something . . .

I – I wondered where Jack was, or something like this. I'd never met him, you see? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But I wondered where Jack was . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: ... or something.

You know? I mean, there's – there's something like that. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: This – about all I got. LRH: All right. Just experimentally, was there a desire to withhold yourself from meeting Jack?

No. All right. Let me check this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell?

Still reacts. PC: I intended on meeting Gernie . . . LRH: Good.

PC: ... I intended to get – get her interested in my theater project. LRH: Ah!

PC: And maybe that's conning Jack a little bit, by getting Gernie interested. LRH: All right. PC: Inadvertently conning Jack – conning Gernie into – into getting her to back my theater project.

LRH: All right. PC: Because I heard she was important, you know . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... she had connections . . . LRH: Now we got little tick-tick. Yeah.

PC: ... and money, and – yeah – money and connections, and . . . LRH: All right. PC: ... may – maybe it's kind of overt against Jack, and conning him too, or something.

LRH: Well, you don't have to add it up to him. Were you trying . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... to con Gernie? TV DEMO: 19 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. LRH: Hm?

PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: Oh, yeah. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now is there a missed withhold right there at that meeting? PC: First meeting with Jack?

Yeah. LRH: No. With Gernie.

PC: Gernie. LRH: There a missed withhold there with Gernie? What would it be?

What didn't she find out about? PC: On me? Gee, I don't know.

That – well, the first I – when I first met her, I – I didn't – here was this big, fat woman here, you know? LRH: Oh, I see. PC: Yeah.

And – but – had a lot of – pretty alive, you know? Gernie is pretty alive. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She – and she was interested in – in – in me because she had seen the production and liked it. And I didn't know who she was. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She – very nice talking, and gets – I got some admiration there, and stuff like this. . . LRH: Hm. PC: . . . you know, it was nice.

LRH: Well, have you answered the auditing question there? Is there a missed withhold from Gernie? I haven't got a reaction on it.

PC: No, I – I – I can't think of any. LRH: All right. Now, let me test this What question again, huh?

PC: Hm. LRH: All right. What about conning Jack?

Now, we've still got a little tick here. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Did you meet Jack Campbell – coming back to one we had before . . . PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 20 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: . . . did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?

All right. Let me ask you once more. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this?

I'm not getting a reaction on that. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Ill – Ill say it once more, because you're getting dives here.

PC: Hm. LRH: Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? No, that's clean.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Now, is there a meeting between that first meeting with Gernie and what you were saying was the first meeting with Jack . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: . . . when he bought the drinks? PC: The meeting with Gernie?

Between that time? LRH: Yeah, well, is that – is . . . Yeah, yeah.

Is there a second meeting with Gernie before you met Jack? PC: Gee, I sure got it occluded if there is. There must – I . . .

LRH: Uh-huh. PC: . . . yeah, there must have been. There must have been.

LRH: Uh-huh. We got a . . . PC: Must have been.

LRH: The double action is on there. PC: Yeah. Funny, I've a little charge, too.

LRH: What goes on here? PC: Gee. I'm just trying to think of what it was.

LRH: All right. Good. Good.

PC: Yeah. You know, it must have been, because by the time I met Jack, Gernie and I were already good friends, you know, there . . . LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Wonder what happened in there. LRH: Yeah.

All right. When might that have been? PC: March?

Well, yes. I first met her, right . . . God, 58.

What was that, Streetcar Named Desire? TV DEMO: 21 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm? PC: Yeah.

Streetcar Named Desire. I first met her then, when – when she was – it must have been after Street – no, it must hare been sooner than Streetcar. Man, I've got so much confusion through this period, you know?

LRH: Interesting. PC: It's interesting. LRH: All right.

PC: Uh... LRH: Okay. Well, how can I help you out there?

PC: Well, I – I – I – I'm not sure what you – what to look for now. I kind of got lost off of that . . . LRH: All right.

Now, I asked you if there was a meeting . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... with Gernie, before you – from that – between that first meeting . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: ... and when you met Jack. I was asking you . . .

PC: Yeah, there must have been several of them. LRH: ... when was that period? PC: Yeah.

I can't remember when I first met Gernie. LRH: That's it. PC: Do you follow?

LRH: That's it. We haven't got the first meeting spotted, have we? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Well, when might it have been? PC: I – it seems to me it was after Waiting for Godot.

I – I – after I did that production. And that was in – sp – well, spring of 57. Yeah.

LRH: We're getting a bit of reaction there. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

Is that all there is to that meeting now? PC: Yeah. You mean that meeting with Gernie?

LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 22 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Yeah. Far as – yeah.

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Far as I know. LRH: All right.

What didn't appear there? PC: Well, Jack didn't. LRH: All right.

Okay. Did you particularly want him to appear on that scene? PC: No, I didn't even know about him existing, you see, at that – at that point, really.

LRH: Oh, you didn't know he existed at all? PC: No. LRH: All right.

Very good. All right. And who didn't find out about that first meeting?

I got a reaction. PC: Oh, the – yeah, the – the people that ran the American Students and Artists Center didn't find out about that. LRH: Oh, yeah.

All right. Very good. PC: 'Cause they were supporting me, they were behind me, and it was kind of – I don't know.

LRH: Well? PC: I was – l was getting support from other people too. Confused.

I was, you know, very confused there. LRH: Well, all right. Now we're getting onto something interesting While they were supporting you, were you looking for support from other people?

PC: Yeah, for my – well, not really. But I felt kind of guilty about – people would off – or something. You know, I'd – I'd get admiration and stuff like this.

I was becoming an independent figure, you see? LRH: I see. PC: Kind of like this.

LRH: I see. PC: In a sense. LRH: All right.

Good enough. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check this over now.

Another What question here incidental, just to be checked. TV DEMO: 23 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie?

Now there's a double tick on these meetings with Gernie. PC: They're certainly occluded, in through here. LRH: There it is.

PC: There's a year . . . LRH: There it is. PC: See, there's a year going through there . . .

LRH: All right. PC: . . . about that. LRH: Hm.

PC: You know. LRH: I'm going to put that down as a . . . PC: Boy, I sure had trouble with Gernie later on, so there must be – there must be something in there.

LRH: Yeah? You do something to her? PC: Yeah.

LRH: What? PC: Oh – I – later on there, I fought with her, you know? LRH: All right.

PC: Fought with her . . . LRH: Did you do something to her specifically? We got a tick.

PC: Yeah. I – yeah, one time she wanted to – she wanted to come and have supper with me. I told her no, I was going to go with some other people.

LRH: Hm-km. PC: I – I – you know, kind of pushed her away. LRH: You what?

PC: I kind of repulsed her. LRH: All right. PC: Repulsed her and . . .

TV DEMO: 24 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Well, let me ask this question: What about refusing Gernie? No, that isn't live. It isn't quite right.

What would you do to Gernie? You repulsed her, then. PC: That time.

Yeah. LRH: Well, when was that? PC: Was quite a bit later.

This – I was back . . . LRH: Well, when was it? PC: Nineteen – Jesus – Sixty.

Spring of 60. LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: March of 60. LRH: Is that all there is to it? PC: Well, there's other stuff during that incident.

She was producing; I was directing a production there. LRH: Ah. You were working with her.

PC: Yeah, working together. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: Long time.

LRH: Good. All right. And what didn't appear there?

PC: In that particular instance there of repulsing her? Well, some friendliness on my part didn't appear. LRH: All right.

Very good. And who didn't find out about it? PC: Well, Gernie didn't, really.

LRH: Okay. Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me ask you a couple of just leading questions here, could I? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is there any affair – is there any affair with Gernie?

Is there any refusal to have an affair with Gernie? PC: Yeah. Not – do you mean love affair?

Or . . . LRH: Yeah, I don't care. PC: Yeah.

It was never – it was – it was neither way, you know? It was – we got together one time and – on this American Theatre Association thing, and she said, “Fred,” she said, “I'd help you, but I want something out of it.” TV DEMO: 25 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: And I – at that time I – I – I – I wondered – I had the consideration that, well, people should help me because they should help me, you know?

Not because they want something out of me. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: You know ?

Very . . . LRH: All right. We're on the double-tick line.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Go on. PC: Yeah.

And that – that I deserve to be helped. You know? LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I – I – and I don't – I don't need to give anything in return. LRH: Ah. PC: Except my – my “contribution of art to the world, “you know?

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: Or something like that – some jazz like that. I'm important enough, and I´m – you know, I should be helped and not be bothered about things like this, and what have you.

I – I kind of left her with a maybe on that whole thing. LRH: What did she mean by, she expected something out of it? What do you think she meant?

PC: Well, she – she expected to direct a play now and then, when she wanted to, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . enter in artistically into the thing And I wasn't interested in letting her do this.

I didn't consider her capable at the time of . . . LRH: Did she ever find out about this? PC: She never found out about that, no.

LRH: Oh. Is there a consistent withhold here on the subject of her capability? PC: There certainly is, yeah.

Certainly is. Certainly is. All through – all through our relationship.

Kind of culminating up into producing this play . . . LRH: Hm. PC: ... together.

TV DEMO: 26 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: I found out, in working together, that she was very capable. LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Before that – you know. LRH: You had an opinion through that period? PC: Yeah.

Yeah. LRH: All right. She didn't find out about this at any time?

PC: No. LRH: Did Jack ever find out about this? PC: No.

LRH: Might Jack have found out about this when he was auditing you? PC: Yeah, he might have, if he'd . . . LRH: All right.

PC: ... asked me. LRH: Is there anything else about Gernie that Jack might have found out about? That's it.

PC: I – I had a feeling she was interested in me as a man, you see, sexually. LRH: I see. PC: I couldn't – you know.

I wouldn't want Jack to know that, that I kind of got the idea from her. Not through any really terribly overt – kind of covertly, I mean. LRH: I see.

PC: And I wouldn't want Jack to know about that. LRH: All right. All right.

Now let me disentangle . . . PC: Yes. LRH: ... all of this a little bit here.

PC: Right. LRH: And let me ask that question again, check it on the meter. PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Might Jack have found out something about you and Gernie when he was auditing you? Getting a little action on this. PC: Seems to be something else.

LRH: It's what something else? TV DEMO: 27 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: He might have found something else out – something else about me and Gernie, beside what I said. LRH: Something else . . .

PC: Yeah. LRH: ... than this capability thing PC: Yeah. LRH: Was there anything else to find out?

Got a reaction. PC: I didn't like her! LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I didn't like her. LRH: Good.

Well, might he have practically blown your head off if he'd fount out about your opinions with Gernie? What do you think? Something going on here.

PC: Yeah. LRH: I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. PC: Yeah.

I – I – I don't know – I – my considerations at the time or my considerations now? LRH: Your considerations at the time. PC: At the time.

Well, you know, I – he might have – he might not have liked me, or something like that. But that's the missed withhold. LRH: All right.

Very good. All right. Let me check this lineup now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Okay? What about conning Jack Campbell?

Got a reaction. PC: Hm. LRH: Instant reaction.

PC: Hm. LRH: But it's not now the dirty needle reaction. PC: Yeah.

I mean, there are some other times when I conned him, kind of LRH: Oh, just give me a rapid rundown. What's the relationship here? PC: Well, I – I – I got some books from him and never paid him for the books.

LRH: All right. Good. Thank you.

Any other one? PC: Oh, I – I – I was going to trade twenty-five hours of auditing with him. TV DEMO: 28 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-m.

PC: That's – that was a con, because he was a better auditor than I was. LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: Actually I got twelve and a half. LRH: Good. Good.

PC: Uh... LRH: Any others? PC: Can't think of any right now.

LRH: All right. What? PC: No, it's a motivator.

LRH: Well, that's all right. What's the motivator? Perfectly all right with me.

PC: Yeah. Well, there's – there was – there was some confusion with him about when I was on the course – when he came on the ACC over here. That's . . .

LRH: Yeah. PC: . . . when he was a student on an ACC. He and Vincent came over here.

And – well, no, there – th-th-th-th-there's an overt in there. Yeah. LRH: Yeah, that's what I was going to just ask for, but you saved me the trouble.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. What's the overt?

PC: There's an overt in there. He left Mario and myself to teach the course there. Mm?

LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And we were supposed to work together in teaching the course. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But Mario went on a concert tour, didn't come back. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: See?

And he was supposed to come back in a week, didn't come back. LRH: Hm. PC: . . . at all, you know.

But I went ahead and taught the course, myself LRH: Hm-hm. TV DEMO: 29 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And spent the time blaming Jack, kind of, for not – you know, for Mario – to let Mario – Jack, everybody else, whereby . . . The overt was – golly, it's kind of – there's something to do with holding down the whole thing by myself . . .

LRH: Hm. PC: . . . and proving to them that they were no good, or something like this. you know, I don't know. LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Something like that. LRH: Good enough.

Thank you. All right, let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell?

All right. I don't know if that was a reaction or not, I'll check it again. PC: Hm.

LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got some kind of a reaction. Let's get the 1B checked here.

PC: All right. LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? All right, let me check it again.

What about these meetings with Gernie? That is clean. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now let me check the first one again. What about conning Jack Campbell?

Let me check it again. What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got a reaction on that.

PC: Yeah. LRH: It's much quieter. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Everything is smoothing out. There is something else here. Is that the first meeting you had with Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah! LRH: Was it? PC: Yeah!

LRH: All right. PC: Far as I know. LRH: Now, did you and Gernie talk about Jack Campbell?

All right. There's no reaction there. TV DEMO: 30 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Hm-m.

LRH: Is there any other con there that you might have skipped? Did you ever borrow money from him, or . . . PC: Yeah.

Yeah. LRH: . . . never paid it back? You so far have just mentioned course fees, and so forth.

Did you ever borrow money and not pay it back? PC: I think I paid all the money back I borrowed from him. LRH: I get no reaction on it.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Did you ever take a girl away from him?

PC: No. LRH: Did you ever steal anything off of him? PC: No.

LRH: All right. Did you ever take a fee while you were teaching there and didn't pay it back, or something like that? PC: No.

No. LRH: Huh? PC: No.

Huh. LRH: What do you mean? PC: Oh, yeah!

LRH: What? PC: Yeah, I just remembered an overt I got against him . . . LRH: Yeah, all right.

PC: . . . on that. LRH: What is it? PC: While I was there, teaching – you know, teaching the course, holding things down, his – I'd use his office, you know, I mean, his office there.

LRH: Yeah, yeah. PC: And he said, well, I wasn't supposed to go in the bottom left-hand drawer of his desk. LRH: Right.

TV DEMO: 31 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I'm not supposed to touch that bottom left-hand drawer. LRH: Okay. PC: And so I went in the bottom – so I did go in the bottom left-hand drawer . . .

LRH: All right. PC: . . . and rummaged around there a bit, and found some dirty pictures down there. LRH: Okay.

PC: And never told him about that. Never told him about it. LRH: Okay.

Did he audit you after that? PC: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

LRH: All right. Thank you. Thank you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Good enough. Now let me check this question again.

What about conning Jack Campbell? Well, this is getting to look much cleaner. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. What about conning Jack Campbell? I am not now getting an instant read..

PC: Hm. LRH: . . . but it's a little bit before, and it's a little bit after. PC: Yeah.

Well, there's a lot of – must be a lot of – several other things I have done to him, you know? LRH: Well, think of any offhand? PC: Hm, hm, hm.

LRH: What's that? PC: Oh, well, I – yeah. I conned him there.

LRH: What? PC: I took the test, my final exam paper . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . from the HPA, home, and did it at home . . . LRH: Oh, I see. PC: . . . in a sense.

That's sort of a con. Well, yeah, because I – I – I went home and I – actually, when I took this paper home, I thought it was a joke about learning the Axioms. I – I – you know, learning, memorizing all those Axioms.

That was silly. TV DEMO: 32 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And when I – I came – I brought it back.

I copied them out of the book, you know. LRH: Hm. PC: Brought them back, you know, I brought them back.

And he looked at it, and he checked it over, with me there, and he saw that everything was perfect in it. LRH: Hm-m. PC: You know?

And he looked at me kind of funny, like “Well, you got it right.” LRH: Hm. PC: I conned him there, because I realized when he looked at me funny that I – it wasn't a joke. I should have memorized those Axioms.

LRH: Oh, I get you. PC: And I – I hadn't. LRH: All right.

PC: And – and at that moment I knew that – really that – that I hadn't. You know, I mean, I should have, or something, you know ? LRH: Hm-hm, yeah.

PC: And I conned him there. LRH: Okay. PC: Yeah.

LRH: We got it taped now. PC: Hm. LRH: All right.

Let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? This looks fairly clean.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: I'll check it just one more time. What about conning Jack Campbell?

I haven't got anything on it. PC: Hm. LRH: That's clean.

PC: That was a – that was a – actually, that was the big one there. I mean, that – that one there. LRH: Yeah.

That cleaned it. All right. PC: Funny, because I told you about that once, but it wasn't – it wasn't as precise.

TV DEMO: 33 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: It wasn't “who missed the withhold,” was it? PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Now, all right. Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?

PC: Nope. LRH: All right. Are you sure of that?

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking? PC: Now about the double tick?

Is that off ? LRH: I knew there was – I can't find it. PC: Yeah.

LRH: It started disappearing when we cleaned up Gernie. PC: Hm. Hm.

LRH: And I haven't seen it. PC: Hm? LRH: But you ask about it there.

There's . . . PC: Hm. LRH: ... there's a wide motion, there's a wider motion.

PC: Hm-hm. LRH: It's about so long, but it isn't the tick I had in the first place. PC: Hm.

LRH: I've got a tick here of some kind or another. PC: Hm. LRH: It's not a tick.

I've got a – a stop and a sweep. PC: Yeah. LRH: But I was looking for a dirty little tick-tick.

PC: Yeah. LRH: And it seems to have dived for cover at the moment. PC: Hm.

LRH: There – no, there it is again. PC: Yeah. TV DEMO: 34 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Why?

What are you thinking of, as you think of that? PC: I don't know. That's the funny thing, you see?

I kind of look at something. I kind of look at an area of the bank. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: You know, or something, or a piece of a ridge there, or something like that. LRH: Well, that's all right. PC: You know ?

And I get it there . . . LRH: It's all right. It's all right.

Okay. PC: I can bring it back by sweeping, you know? Scanning across.

LRH: Well, try it – to bring it back. PC: 1b bring it back? It's – I don't know.

LRH: Yeah. A little bit. Little bit.

PC: Yeah, there's a little button there, it's – push – I don't know. LRH: All right. There it is.

PC: Creeps up on me. I was just trying there . . . LRH: All right.

But do you think we've attained anything there, on that? PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Okay.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's see what we've got here. Okay?

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me any half-truth? What's the half-truth?

That's it. PC: Oh, about writing those things for Robin, maybe. That's what I thought of . . .

LRH: All right. All right. PC: ... right there.

LRH: Thank you. I'll check it on the meter. Have you told me any half-truth?

Got it. Check, bang It reacts. PC: Hm-hm.

Half-truths. Gee, I don't know. LRH: Hm?

TV DEMO: 35 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I don't know what it Was. LRH: Think of anything at all? What's that?

PC: Oh, well, there must be some other things with Jack, I think. LRH: Oh, all right. PC: You know.

LRH: All right. PC: I was . . . LRH: You weren't satisfied that the What question was clean?

PC: Yeah, I was satisfied. LRH: Yeah. PC: There was probably other things on the chain there along some – you know, little ones . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... like that, but not enough to . . . LRH: Okay.

PC: Hm. LRH: Thank you. I'll check the auditing question.

Have you told me any half-truth? Clean. Untruth?

What's the untruth? PC: Untruth. LRH: That's it.

Untruth. PC: About Gernie? I don't know.

LRH: Think of an untruth? PC: Well, she didn't actually – I don't think she really ever really insinuated that she was interested in me, sexually. LRH: Ah.

PC: You know? I – it – I think it was mainly my own ideas or something. You know, I mean, I kind of switched things around or something.

LRH: All right. Okay. Have you told me any untruth?

Got a reaction. PC: Hm. Huh, I don't know what it is.

Untruth. LRH: There's something PC: I don't know what it is. TV DEMO: 36 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Something there.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. I'll ask the question again.

PC: Yeah. Yeah. LRH: Your answer is you don't know what it is?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Thank you.

PC: I- I got an idea. LRH: What is it? PC: Something about beginning rudiments.

LRH: Did you think one of them was still hot? PC: Maybe I had kind of a suspicion or something. I wasn't sure.

LRH: Oh, yeah? PC: Well, it could of – yeah, well, kind of a – of a missed withhold or something, you know? LRH: All right.

All right. PC: I was – I was – when you said – when you asked about a present time problem, I had a tiny present time problem that I haven't been able to get to sleep too well . . . LRH: Yeah.

PC: ... over the last week or so. LRH: Yeah. PC: And I thought that it might show up.

And then it didn't show up. And I thought it might show up, and uh – but it didn't show up. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And so I thought maybe that was something wrong there. LRH: All right. Is there an untruth?

Was any of that an untruth? PC: No, no, there wasn't an untruth on that. LRH: Well, was it an untruth?

Did you tell me that it . . . ? PC: An untruth, huh? LRH: Thinking of something there.

TV DEMO: 37 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Well, yeah. If I said I had a present time problem and it didn't react on the meter, then it would be an untruth. LRH: Is that right?

PC: Yes. LRH: Is that what occurred? PC: Yeah.

LRH: You're not sure? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that your answer?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Very good.

I will check that. All right. Have you told me an untruth?

I get a reaction. Let me check it again . . . PC: Hm.

LRH: ... because you got a pretty dirty needle. PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you told me an untruth?

PC: Gee, I don't know what it is. LRH: This is very equivocal. PC: Yeah?

LRH: Do you have a guilty conscience about telling untruths or something of the sort here? This is not getting the same reaction . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . constantly at all. PC: I – I – I have a guilty conscience. It's just, you know, a general one-has-a-guilty- conscience guilty conscience, you know?

LRH: Well, does that upset you that I asked you if you've told an untruth? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that what this is falling on?

PC: Yeah, maybe. LRH: Well, is it or isn't it? PC: Yeah, I didn't expect it to fall.

TV DEMO: 38 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Oh, all right. Okay. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Let me check it again. Have you told me an untruth?

Now, I still get a reaction on this. That's it. PC: Oh.

About my friend with the letter? LRH: All right. PC: My friend ?

LRH: Well, what's the untruth there? That's it. PC: Well, I'm not – I'm not absolutely positive I wrote it to the right address.

Huh? Have to go back, I have to check my – my address book . . . LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . to make sure, because I just – I wrote the address out, you know . . . LRH: Hm-hm. PC: . . . after having remembered it.

And I'm not – I have to check my address book. LRH: All right. Thank you.

Is there an untruth in that anyplace? PC: Well, I said that . . . LRH: What was the untruth?

PC: Hm. LRH: That's it. PC: Well, that he – that I'm sure – well, that I'm sure that he would have – would have told me if he had moved.

LRH: Oh, I see. PC: You know. LRH: All right.

PC: And maybe he wouldn't have. I'm not sure that he would have told me that he moved. LRH: All right.

Very good. PC: Right. LRH: Very good.

Have you told me an untruth? All right. That's clean.

Or said something only to impress me? I'll check that again. Have you said something only to impress me?

Have you said something only to impress me? I haven't got any reaction on that. Your needle is banging around here . . .

TV DEMO: 39 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Oh. LRH: . . . so I have to check it a little bit. Would you care to answer it?

PC: I was thinking maybe that this overt on Robin I said, but it wasn't only to impress you. No, it wasn't. LRH: All right.

Good. PC: Yeah. LRH: Let me check it again.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? Now I am getting a kick on this.

PC: Oh, it wasn't only to impress you, but maybe I – it was a little bit to impress you. This overt on Robin, about writing him notes and stuff . . . LRH: All right.

PC: . . . like that. LRH: Okay. Thank you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? That's clean.

Or tried to damage anyone in this session? Thank you. That's clean.

Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Now what's the ping on that? PC: I was looking for that – that double tick.

LRH: Oh! PC: You know? LRH: All right.

All right. PC: Looking for the double tick that I had. LRH: Very good.

All right. I'll check that. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E- Meter?

I get a little tick on it still. PC: Well, I implied that I could influence, I suppose, to a certain extent, if I could “push the button.” I said I could “push the button” there and get a double tick. LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: You know, and that – if that was true, then I could push the button any time and get a double tick. LRH: Yeah. PC: Sort of push the button.

TV DEMO: 40 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: All right. PC: That wasn't true, you know. LRH: Okay.

All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Very improbable.

I will check it one more time. PC: Oh, I don't want it to read when – when I can't find anything to – to – for it to read on. LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: You see? LRH: All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter?

I haven't got a reading here . . . PC: Yeah. LRH: ... but subject seems to be kind of mucky.

PC: Well, I've kind of held my breath at times, hoping that I wouldn't get any read, or something on that. Read a body read or – I mean, it was silly, you know? I was sort of holding my breath or holding my body still and holding my hands still to make sure that the E-Meter doesn't read.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Good.

All right. PC: Hm. LRH: Okay.

Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Well, this is a bzz-bzz... PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: ... sort of question. It isn't reacting very hard, but there's something there. Feel you gave me a lose by making – I was trying to clean up this double tick, or . . .

PC: Something to do with that. No, not so much. LRH: ... or something like that?

Any feeling like that at all? PC: Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe – maybe I thought it at the moment when I said “What happened to the double tick?” LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And I thought, well, the double tick should have gone by now, you see? LRH: Hm-hm. PC: It cleared up with Gernie, then that was the end of the double tick.

TV DEMO: 41 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Hm. PC: Then it came back. LRH: Hm.

PC: And in a sense I felt I influenced the E-Meter, or something, to bring it back on, you know, like that. LRH: Hm. All right.

Okay. Now let me check this question again. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? That is clean. All right.

Have you failed to answer any question or command I have given you in this session? Thank you. That's clean.

Have you withheld anything from me? It's a trifle latent . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... but what is it? PC: I was thinking there was one just – there was one question that I may have failed to answer . . . LRH: What was that?

PC: ... much earlier, and I'm surprised it didn't react. I was thinking there was one, and it should have reacted. LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: Or something like that. LRH: All right, what question was it? PC: The one about “What about those meetings in between?” I never did find a meeting in between . . .

LRH: Oh, all right. PC: ...you see, those two. LRH: Thank you.

I'm sorry I asked the double question then. PC: Yeah. LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? I got a reaction.

PC: I don't understand what you meant by double question. Or . . . LRH: I ask you a question, you answer it and I ask you another question.

I was just apologizing TV DEMO: 42 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: When was that? 1. . . LRH: Just a moment ago. PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. Let me check this . . . PC: Yeah.

LRH: ... again. Hm? Have you withheld anything from me?

Well, this – this is greasy. This hasn't anything to do with it. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? There is not an instant read on this. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Well, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Yes, there's a bing on withheld. PC: Lot of things I'd like to talk to you about.

I – you know . . . LRH: Well, all right. Now, get the question here, now.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me?

All right. It looks much cleaner. PC: Yeah.

There's a lot of things I – I don't tell you or talk about, or something like that. you know, sometimes I . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...I've withheld – I've withheld communicating to you how pleased I am to be on the course, and how – how – how . . .

LRH: All right. PC: ... and how many gains I have got and how tremendous I think it is. That's all.

LRH: All right. PC: You know? LRH: Very good.

PC: But it's not an overt act. I'm trying to give overt acts that I've done and I've withheld, you know, or something like that. LRH: Oh, I see.

All right. Have you withheld anything from me? There's a slight needle change . . .

TV DEMO: 43 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: Uh-huh. LRH: ... right there on the end of that. PC: Uh...

LRH: There it is. There it is. PC: Yeah.

All right. All right. This is very funny.

I – I got myself in the front – right at the front of the class . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... this week, under the assumption I was no longer an old – a new student – that I'm an old student.

Last week Herbie caught me in the third row from the back, in the first lecture, and I – here you know I – I kind of snuck up to the third row that first day . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ...you know.

He told me I could sit in back, you know . . . LRH: Yeah. PC: ... new student, next time.

Well, yesterday I got in the second row from the front . . . LRH: Uh-huh. PC: ... and no one caught me at it.

If – if now, as – a little games condition thing there, and I was just seeing if – if the second week, if you're still a new student, and – and if I wouldn't be (a) I wouldn't get caught at it or (b) I would – could argue my way out that I was a new student. LRH: All right. PC: And – or something like that.

Anyway, it's silly LRH: All right. Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? A halt as it goes, as it comes back up.

PC: Hm. LRH: There. PC: Hm.

LRH: There. What are you thinking about? PC: Well, I . . .

LRH: There. TV DEMO: 44 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: I had an argument with – a little argument with Robin. LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: ... about – after I took over the post. LRH: Hm-hm. PC: And I . . . oh, I don't know, I didn't tell you about it.

LRH: All right. Very good. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay? PC: Yeah. LRH: Is that it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Let me check this question on the meter.

Have you withheld anything from me? It's just a little roughness. Pretty clean.

Just a little roughness. PC: Hm-hm. LRH: Hardly detectable.

A slowed rise. PC: I'm trying to differentiate between motivators and, you know, overt acts, and what's really a withhold, and what isn't, and, you know, I'm still a little confused on that. LRH: All right.

PC: And... LRH: Does that answer the question? PC: Yeah.

And I'm not sure what – what a withhold is at this point, in a sense, you see? LRH: Oh. PC: And...

LRH: I see. PC: Because it . . . LRH: I get you.

PC: Yeah. LRH: Well, go ahead, if you want. PC: Well, it's just a “damage somebody, “you know ?

I mean, it's not – see, I'm confused. LRH: All right. TV DEMO: 45 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: You know, it's – it's that – that's – it's – it's – it's not a withhold, really, because I wouldn't mind telling you LRH: All right.

PC: You see? LRH: All right. PC: So I don't . . .

LRH: Very good. PC: ... but if I did tell you, it would be kind of a “damage”; then it would be an overt act, then it – you know, it would – the rudiments would go out. And then, you know, I'm a little confused on what's a withhold.

It's something I did. LRH: All right. PC: And I can't think of anything I did that I, you know, withheld from you.

LRH: All right. PC: You know. LRH: Let me check the question again.

PC: Hm. LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? Still get a reaction.

PC: Still get a reaction. LRH: There it is. PC: Right there.

LRH: There it is. PC: Well, I – I – I . . . LRH: There it is.

PC: Well, it's kind of an overt act now. I changed the franchise thing a – a little bit while I had the post. LRH: Hm.

PC: And it didn't really become an overt act until Robin got excited about it when he took over. LRH: Hm. PC: And then – then I – something happened.

LRH: Hm-m. TV DEMO: 46 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES PC: And I put in some – made franchises a little stiffer, you know, to get a franchise. LRH: Hm-m.

PC: And made co-audit centers beef it up a little bit to – you know, to get more information to them for people who didn't, I felt, deserve franchises or, you know, because they weren't working at it, you know? LRH: Hm-m. PC: To kind of give them a gradient to get up to a franchise.

Well, I withheld from you telling you that – that since Robin had taken over he's – he's switched it back and made franchise very easy to get, you know, and everything else. And I think that's wrong. And I withheld telling you that I think it's wrong LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: But it's none of my business anymore. LRH: All right.

PC: Huh. LRH: Thank you. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. Let me check the question. Have you withheld anything from me?

Well, it's clean. PC: Yeah. Oh, is it?

LRH: All right. Okay. Look around here and tell me if you can have anything.

Thank you. Squeeze them cans. All right.

Squeeze the cans. All right. Put the cans up on the table.

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. Touch the table.

Now, we were running Feel, weren't we? PC: Yeah, well, same thing LRH: Does it mean anything PC: Yeah, yeah. LRH: All right.

Okay. Touch the table. Thank you.

Touch your chair. Thank you. Touch that.

Good. Thank you. Touch the table.

Good. Good. Touch the top of your head.

Good. Thank you. Touch the table.

Good. Touch your chair. Good.

All right. Pick up the cans. Okay.

Squeeze the cans. That's much better. Squeeze them again.

All right. We are going to let it go at that. Thank you.

All right. Made any part of your goals for this session? PC: I think so.

TV DEMO: 47 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Okay. All right. PC: I think cleaning off this stuff on Jack will help me in Scientology – (a) in Scientology, help me in my – in studying.

LRH: Stay in PT while studying? All right. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Good. PC: And – what was my other goal? LRH: Sleep.

PC: Sleep? LRH: Sleep at night? PC: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no trouble. No trouble.

Won't have any trouble. LRH: You're postulating that, or do you – do you know? PC: No, I know.

I just know. LRH: All right. PC: I´ll just go to sleep easily.

LRH: You're not trying to make me look good? PC: No, no. LRH: All right.

PC: No. I – I just – I just feel better, and feel kind of tired, and feel like sleeping, instead of nervously tired. There's a difference.

LRH: All right. Okay. Okay.

PC: Yeah. I've been nervous. And I don't feel as nervous now.

LRH: All right. PC: So... LRH: I see.

All right. Well, have you made any other gains in this session you care to mention? PC: Cleaned up on Scientology.

LRH: All right. PC: Remembered a few things, that. . . LRH: Okay.

PC: ... didn't remember otherwise. TV DEMO: 48 FISH AND FUMBLE – CHECKING DIRTY NEEDLES LRH: Anything else? PC: Hm . . .

I just feel more rested . . . LRH: All right. PC: ...you know.

I don't feel as frantic as I used to feel. LRH: Good. All right.

Thank you. PC: I got on television again. LRH: All right.

Okay. PC: It's a game. LRH: All right.

Okay. Is there anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? PC: No, but thank you.

LRH: All right. You're sure? PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check that. Anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? Thank you.

All right. You're all right, then, huh? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Is it all right with you if I end this session now? PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right, here it is. End of session. Has the session ended for you?

PC: Yeah. Yeah, it has. LRH: Has it?

PC: Yeah. LRH: All right. PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good. Tell me I'm no longer auditing you. PC: You're no longer auditing me.

LRH: Thank you.

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