View source for Question and Answer Period (7ACC 540726)

'''Series:''' 7th Advanced Clinical Course (7ACC)

'''Date:''' 26 July 1954

'''Speaker:''' L. Ron Hubbard

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[Note: The recording starts with the lecture already in progress.]

Well, if a case is very well exteriorized, he'd be in fairly good shape, wouldn't he? Male voice: Yes. But what do we do if a person won't exteriorize?

Route 1, Intensive Procedure.

Male voice: Thank you.

The only variation in that textbook which you have right now is that where it says there on "duplicate"—l think it's the second step of Route 1 there. I think that's 4, isn't it? Audience: Five.

Five. Five, yeah—R1-5. Where it says "duplicate" in R1—5, both in the index and in the text, you put down "copy." Put down "copy" and you've got the procedure. Duplicate has started to mean something else recently. After a person is beautifully exteriorized, you use R-1 all the way down on Intensive Procedure.

There is another change on that, by the way, which I may as well give to you. And I ran another experiment, which is the... R1-12—change here. You have the preclear find what power sources he wouldn't mind occupy— tested it, finally, very thoroughly. Have him discover what power sources he wouldn't mind having occupy his same space. And that's its auditing command: "What power sources wouldn't you mind occupying your space?"

By the way, they'll tell you some very grandiose things, marvelous, with no certainty on them at all. They'll always start with some big power source. You have to keep up this for quite some little time before he really shakes it out. Preclears are—I've known this for a long time: They're so jealous of the Sun and so forth as a power source. They go around thinking of themselves as glittering objects and so forth, which they are not. So R1-12 is discover what power sources he wouldn't mind having occupy the same space with him.

In addition to that, R1-10 can have two steps there, two commands, is "What wouldn't you mind occupying the same vicinity as you're in?" "What wouldn't you mind having in your vicinity?" A very permissive lead-in, gradient scale, eases in. And then you slide over into what you wouldn't mind occupying the same space. It avoids the tremendous comm lag, uses it for another purpose. Keeps him in communication instead of knocking him anaten.

Any book of this character keeps getting brought up-to-date. There's an addendum under preparation which has these corrections in it, which will be sent to you. But then I say R2-16 over here in the text could be put together as its most permissive source of material. (Where is it here?) R2-16. Notice this is mimeographed on one side only. That's to leave the other page blank for notes or corrections.

R2-16 here says that—your Opening Procedure, Parts (a), (b) and (c). Well, I have given you two lectures now on the subject of the most permissive forms of this and you might note down the fact that there is a more permissive form than Opening Procedure 8-C. Just have them sit in one place and spot some spots in the room, have him close his eyes and spot some spots in the room. And you should make a remark to that effect over here on your margin, to bring your book up completely. That's its elementary phase. Yes, Frank?

Male voice: My auditor had me follow the commands with my eyes dosed, theta-wise, exactly the same way as you do with a body. I thought it was wonderful. Change was just—gee, I—tone seemed to come way up and perception increased.

You mean, had you with your eyes closed…

Male voice: Part of it and one part…

…move your body around the room with your eyes closed?

Male voice: Well, no, no. I'd just move toward it and then reach out for it and then touch it and…

Yeah.

Male voice: …oh, gee, that was wonderful.

Yeah. well, that's…

Female voice: We all can do that?

…just 8-C run on the thetan.

Male voice: Yeah.

We've had that for some time.

Female voice: Can you have the thetan move the body over to touch the spot?

That's not advisable. You're liable to have an accident. He's liable to fall over something he didn't notice.

Yes, Bud.

Male voice: How about having the Pc point to the places in the room when he's got his eyes closed? Would that be nice?

You're validating the body. We're not running the body. Let's just forget that body. If I'm running that one, I won't even let the pc spot things like the floor under his feet.

Male voice: Huh!

I just disassociate him from having a body.

Male voice: Well, you'd have to leave out the right and left and use directions, eh?

No. I've been using north, east, south and west.

Male voice: That's what I meant.

And ceiling and floor.

Male voice: Yeah.

North wall, south wall. "Pick out some spots in the south wall."

Male voice: Mm-hm.

"Pick out some spots on the desk," go on like this. I had one preclear scream when it got too real. Yeah, he had the idea that the Rosicrucians have.

There are, you might say, other time continuums. What would that be, "continui," wouldn't it?

Audience: "-a".

Continua? How did it get to be "-a?"

Audience: (various responses)

Male voice: Continua.

Well, it couldn't be continuums. It must be…

Female voice: Continui.

…continua.

Female voice: It's just the "i. " Isn 't it?

Yeah. I'm not convinced yet.

Male voice: Just because the Fourth Legion didn 't use proper Latin. [laughter]

Second male voice: It was the Seventh, not the Fourth.

Well, you're—just because there are some other time continua [laughter], you have a tremendously interesting situation where a thetan can flip to one of these other time continua. He can just do a flip and find himself beautifully running on another time agreement—time-space agreement. Of course, this is another universe. People say, "Well, if there is another universe, would it be right behind this universe or just ahead of it, or maybe at an 89-degree angle with this universe?" No, no. It'd just be a different time continuum, that's all it would be.

For instance, if that wall right there were not agreed upon by you but were agreed upon by the lice people or something in another universe, they would have a wall there and you wouldn't, because they would have space that you wouldn't have, you see? Pretty simple.

If you think of the fourth dimension as an invention to obfuscate existence (something like the Creator), you'll see immediately that this makes considerable sense.

In other words, it wouldn't be even that you had a wall sitting in the middle of this room, see, because that would presuppose two spaces which were—if it's just an agreement, you see, there is no location except with relationship to the orientation-points of the time continuum. So you've got an orientation-point of a time continuum, you'd have one rate of time, you would have one space for that to operate in and you'd have a set of agreements which would accomplish that and that would be a universe.

Well, all a thetan's got to do to get into another universe is simply change his mind to its set of agreements and time continuum. Flip.

And every once in a while you'll find a thetan running 180 degrees out of phase with this universe. This universe is—by agreement, is going on and off at l/c. Flick, flick, flick, flick, flick, see? On-off, on-off, on-off, on-off, on-off. Well, that's fine. Every time these particles shift, you actually have a new set of spaces. Oh, it's—we don't have to worry about this because it's just a consideration. But every once in a while everything is all black and he can't see it. Well, why can't he see it? He's looking at the silences instead of the noise.

You know, you could just as easily—you just as easily listen to the silences in an engram bank as you can the noise and a lot of people are doing that. If you trained yourself up to it, to a point of recognition where you could do this, you could listen to the silence of Spike Jones's orchestra. You could. You could sit there and listen to his silences. You wouldn't hear any noise.

But you—see, you couldn't look at Spike Jones's orchestra and hear the silences of Spike Jones's orchestra because it would be the offbeat that you would be looking at, you see? You'd have more chance of doing that with sound because it's running on a different wavelength than light.

But at the same time, a lot of your preclears are occluded simply because the body is busily running on this time continuum, you see, and the thetan is an unwilling laggard. He had a tremendous number of agreements about time in some other universe. See, he's all set. He's got a different time continuum and he's half agreed to that one and he's half agreed to this one and he then has the idea of hanging in between. He isn't hanging in between. He just has never made up his mind: is he in Universe Alpha or in Universe Beta? Well, of course, all he'd have to do is have a set of agreements which would put him in Alpha and at the same time a set of agreements which would put him in Beta, and have the two mixed, to be in two universes. And he could have a picnic [laughter] —and some of them are having a picnic.

So in view of the fact that we are not processing in Universe Beta, if we call this one Universe Alpha, the place to process your preclear is where he's in communication. That's elementary, isn't it? You should process him where he's in communication and simply put him into better communication. Does that mean he's going to get stuck in this universe? No, it doesn't mean he's going to get stuck here, but it means it gives him a freedom to make up his mind about other agreements. That's as elementary as that.

He could get lost so he couldn't find this universe anymore, couldn't he? Or could he simply just say, "You know, I knew of a universe once" and pick it up from there? Could he do that? Yep, because he every once in a while does it.

If you don't watch yourself very, very closely when you're coasting around and you've got all perception off of this universe—that is to say, you're looking through everything, you might say, in a no-space relationship —you all of a sudden open up and start to look at a universe and you're in another universe. You got a different time continuum.

It's the only thing that makes a universe. It is a space—it is a space which holds in common a time continuum—in other words, rate of motion of particles. Oh, you could just overstrain this no end. You could Einstein yourself to death on this one, Well, what is it? It's a set of agreements.

Now, what is unknown about it (about this particular universe) is, is it safe to agree with its time continuum? And so we find a preclear, very fishily, with his little finger over in this universe, hanging in another one, see? He knew there was a time continuum in this other universe. Therefore, it was good and solid, you know, and everybody was agreed on it and he had a good time and everything came off well. And this one, well, he's got ahold of a body, you know? It talks, it thinks, it walks. And I'll just sit here and pretend I'm looking at a radar screen watching what it's doing, you know, and I really won't get myself too well associated with it.

Well, the second you start to have him look at walls, you're asking him to take a good solid look at the time continuum of this universe. What else should he do? That's where he's in communication. Why doesn't he come all the way in? Water's fine.

Well, now, what if he got all the way in and he wanted to go over to another universe? Give you a nice trick on that: He could fish around on agreements and he could fish around on agreements until he apparently contacted a body or mechanism of another universe. He could get the idea one existed, you see—body or mechanism of another universe.

It would be interesting. Because all he'd have to do, then, is just start spotting spots in that universe, just like he did in this one, and he'd be into its time continuum, zoop. See how elementary that would be.

You say, "How would you fish around and find another body?" Oh, I'll give you an idea.

Get an idea that there's a robot someplace.

All right. Spot some spots with him.

What happens as you do this?

Female voice: Mm-hm.

Well, just spot some more spots with that robot.

What's happening as you do that? What's he looking at, in the first place?

Male voice: It's camouflaged.

Female voice: It tends to play real.

Huh?

Female voice: He tends to play it real. It's something you might actually have.

Well, all right. Spot some more spots with him.

Okay. Now just spot some spots in this room.

Okay. You here? You here?

What happened?

Male voice: He is crazy.

Elm?

Male voice: He—I got onto one where there was a real—foolish arrangement of planes of space. It looked like the camouflage that you put on a boat—you know, all zigzaggy.

Anybody have the robot start getting real real?

Audience: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, very real. I did.

Well, the reason I said…

Female voice: …looking at, was real real too.

The reason I said "real" is because that is a very, very common body form in eight or nine universes that I know of. You see, if you could only get through your sk— your beams [laughter] that you weren't anyplace unless you said you were, that would be a very interesting state of case, wouldn't it? "I am not anyplace unless I say I am."

There's another process that goes along with this which is a very destructive process to this universe. You have a preclear look at things and say, "Well, that's it. That's it. Well, that's it." Not "that's it" anything, just "that's it." You're getting him to run very overtly As-isness, you see, on anything around him. All of a sudden, with his physical vision, he's liable to be looking into the next room. "That's it."

Now, if he's done that and it—begins to worry him that the walls are dishing out on him, here's a very fine one for you, a very interesting one. You just run straight alterism, don't you? Well, this is quite a test of theory. It just works out just perfectly.

You ask him, "What's there?" see.

And he says, "A... a wall."

And you say, "Well, that isn't what I see. What is there?"

And he finally tells you that it's armor plate. Very often he'll get disgusted or something. "It's armor plate. It's... there's a parade of rhinoceroses going across there. There's uh . there's uh . there's bunting. It's a swarm of insects." I mean, any kind of—he's got a wall, see? Wall comes right up and gets nice and bright and solid because he's saying it's something different than it is. So he's out of As-isness.

Now, you can actually take any object and have somebody just—without giving him any idea of perfect duplications or anything—just have him sit there and say, "Well, that's it. That's it. That's it! Yeah, that's it."

It'll get thin. He'll sort of have the idea of looking through it. He'd just get the idea at first of looking through it, he'd get the idea suddenly that there's a desk right behind it.

There would just be the concept that there's a desk behind it. And if he keeps it up, why, he will—he'll see through it.

Well, now, how would you put it back there? You don't have to do it by a system. He could simply say, "It's back there," although it's liable to worry him. So you have him say, "Well, it's a Greek goddess. It's a bear on roller skates. It's a coronet. It's a blonde. It's actually a motion picture projector." And it starts getting heavier and heavier and solider and solider and solider and all of a sudden it's quite visible. In other words, run As-isness and Alter-isness on physical objects and they get thick and get heavy.

So you could do it with universes, you see. You start looking around at the walls and you say, "Well, it's... " You know? You're just looking at the walls. There's no concept going along with it. You're inspecting the walls, mostly on the basis of "Is it there? Yeah, the walls are there."

Well, the guy all of a sudden starts to swing into this time continuum. It's a much better time continuum, believe me, than most of the time continuums he's been mixed up in.

I knew a fellow one time got parked in a time continuum—halfway between one time continuum and another one—two time continuums going on all the time. The only trouble is the time continuum he was running hadn't taken place yet here, so he was running into the ends of pictures before he saw the middle. He just got more and more out of phase. Oh, that's awful. You know the ends of things before they begin and all kinds of weirdities of this character. Well, as you could expect from any vibration, there is a time harmonic; there's a time harmonic. One of the time harmonics is three days, very crudely—not exactly three days. And you'll see this thing show up. The fellow will catch up to the period of the harmonic and then it'll blink out, whatever it was. It's a period of worry, so forth.

Every once in a while somebody notices this, you know, and it's like the two-dimensional worm. They start crawling across this plane which has only two dimensions and bump into something. This is impossible. I mean, there's only two dimensions here and it couldn't possibly be another dimension here. Well, the other dimension is, is a time harmonic.

Naturally, if everything was vibrating at a certain rate of speed, a radio wave or something like that, in a certain space, there might be an echo before and after the time harmonic. But that's so close to science fiction and the usefulness of it is so poor that about the only time you'll ever contact it, to get real serious about, is you'll run into a preclear every once in a while who's running ahead of himself or behind himself.

Now, he's getting nothing but almost continuous déja vu. You know, every place he goes, he's been there in a sort of a half-seen, half-felt idea. Then he gets a related idea to the fact that the front door is going to slam. Only he'll get the related idea the front door is going to slam, you see, and he'll get the idea that something has fired or dropped out front, you see? And then maybe five, ten seconds later, crash, the front door slams.

Well, then he says to himself, "You know what I just did? I must have slammed the front door." He didn't slam the front door. What he did there is he had an inaccurate forecast of it. So he's always running in familiar territory that he doesn't know about and he gets very confused. Déja vu, continual. Merely French for "I've been there before." Anyhow.

All of the manifestations that you run into are simply considerations and if you wanted to sit there for a moment and dream up a whole flock of considerations, why, you could probably tailor yourself up a complete woof and warp of considerations. But we are in communication in this time continuum, in this space, under a certain set of considerations which have taken place. These mechanics, therefore, are more important to us.

Therefore, when we start going into communication with that stuff, we get real comfortable. Because it's still there. It hasn't dimmed out. It's all set. I mean, we can live. And the guy gets more or less relaxed about it.

Thetan's main concern, of course, is always that there is something and he can't communicate ably with that, countered by another concern that he's liable to have nothing. Between these two, he's just between the devil and the deep blue sea. I mean, look, he's liable to run out of something and not have anything anymore, but goddamn it, he can't have any of these "somethings" he is looking at. They're too horrible.

"What wouldn't you mind surviving?" is an interesting little one on such a thing. But way above any of these is old 8-C Opening Procedure, run as a thetan, like Frank was talking about there a moment ago, just doing the commands, just to the individual as a thetan, have him reach out and touch it and let go of them—just the whole works all the way down the line. This is terrific procedure. Terrific. All of a sudden the guy has an awareness of at least being in one universe at a time and that is pleasant. That's real pleasant to be in only one time continuum at a time. Just think of that. You mean he is not scattered out across all these other time continua? I think he'll probably say, "Aaah." Don't you?

Okay?

CERTIFICATES OF DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY

QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD PAGE \* MERGEFORMAT 2 7ACC-31B - 26.07.54

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[[Category:Lectures 1954]]